Skip to main content

Are Jesus and Lucifer the Same Being?

Dr. Thomas Swan has a PhD in psychology from the University of Otago. He specializes in the cognitive and evolutionary study of religion.

Jesus and Lucifer Are the Same: Controversy or Real?

Although it is controversial to compare Jesus to Lucifer, there are a number of mythological and linguistic consistencies that deserve our attention.

As such, Christians and practitioners of other Judeo-Christian faiths should be warned that this article may not make for comfortable reading.

The Origin of the Lucifer Myth

Lucifer is typically described as a fallen angel and a "morning star." The Judeo-Christian narrative of an angel falling from heaven probably has its origins in the Babylonian myth of Etana. This ancient king strove to be higher than the supreme god, Anu, by riding on the wings of an eagle. However, he was filled with fear and was forced to return to Earth.

Alternatively, it may refer to Inanna's descent into the underworld. Like Lucifer, Inanna is associated with Venus in Babylonian mythology. Indeed, many Old Testament myths originated in the Babylonian (Sumerian) religion, including Noah's Ark.

Both Jesus and Lucifer are referred to in the Bible as the "morning star."

Both Jesus and Lucifer are referred to in the Bible as the "morning star."

The Morning Star: Lucifer or Jesus?

In the original Hebrew Old Testament, Lucifer is called Helel, meaning "shining one." Similarly, a direct translation of Lucifer from Latin into English gives us the phrase "light-bearer" or "light-bringer." This notion of light-bringing is a reference to Lucifer's depiction as the planet Venus (the second brightest object in the night sky, after the Moon).

As Venus is often visible shortly before dawn, Lucifer is given the epithet "morning star" to describe how he "brings the light" of a new day.

So, rather than being a prince of darkness, Lucifer appears to have reputable origins. Indeed, popular myths about Lucifer describe him as an angel who was cast out of heaven:

"How you have fallen from heaven, morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!" —Isaiah 14:12

It should be noted that the King James Bible replaces "morning star, son of the dawn" with "O Lucifer, son of the morning." Despite the protests of some Biblical scholars, earlier translations show the two descriptions to be interchangeable. Taken in context, the quoted passage appears to compare the fall of Lucifer with the fate of a Babylonian king. Much despised, King Etana tried to ascend to heaven but was cast back down to Earth.

Lucifer's celestial status as a morning star that brings the dawn is clear. Confusion arises when Jesus is described in the same way:

"I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star." —Revelation 22:16

"May this flame be found still burning by the Morning Star: the one Morning Star who never sets, Christ your Son, who, coming back from death's domain, has shed his peaceful light on humanity." —Easter Proclamation (Roman Missal)

Are the parallels between the descriptions of Lucifer and Jesus in the Bible evidence that they are two sides of the same person?

Are the parallels between the descriptions of Lucifer and Jesus in the Bible evidence that they are two sides of the same person?

The Two Figures' Comparative Mythology

Using the above quotes, one could suggest that Lucifer and Jesus are the same entity. A further connection can be made if we consider their comparative mythologies. As described earlier, Lucifer was thrown out of heaven:

Scroll to Continue

Read More From Owlcation

"And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world—he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him." —Revelation 12:7

"I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven." —Luke 10:18

Christian tradition tells us that Lucifer became Satan after his fall, although that connection is also rather shaky. Nevertheless, Jesus also descended from heaven to walk the Earth and be a god among men:

"But when the time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under law, to redeem those under law, that we might receive the full rights of sons." —Galatians 4:4

"I have come [as] Light into the world, so that everyone who believes in me will not remain in darkness." —John 12:46

When Satan is also called "the God of this world" in 2 Corinthians 4:4, the line between these two beings is blurred even more. Jesus and Lucifer are both light-centric gods called "the morning star" that descended to the human plane of existence.

However, if Jesus and Lucifer are the same entity, then all that followed in the New Testament would be the work of a deceiver. Were Jesus' beneficent, miraculous deeds designed to coax the masses into following him? At the very least, one could question whether a true god would flaunt his powers in such a manner.

It would follow that Christianity could be a Luciferian cult. When considering the fall of Rome, the Dark Ages, the Crusades, the Inquisition, and the countless other evils that can be attributed to its inception, the idea may actually appear less far-fetched than the traditional Christian interpretation.

Interpreting the Morning Star References

Christian scholars have interpreted the Lucifer-Jesus connection in various ways. A common rebuttal to their conflation invokes the following passage to claim that there is more than one morning star:

"Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? Who laid the cornerstone thereof; when the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?" —Job 38:6

However, this contradicts the quotations given earlier. "[T]he one" morning star is described as if there are no others. Furthermore, there is only one Venus, although when the planet overtakes Earth's orbit, it does begin to appear at a different time in the night. The Bible is no stranger to contradiction, so we may never know which interpretation is true.

Other scholars claim the Bible verse in which the morning star is cast from heaven (Isaiah 14, see above) is not allegorical but is actually referring to the king of Babylon. This introduces the question of why Hebrew authors would want to describe this king as a divine (celestial) being. Morning star is more precisely attributed to an angel—not a king they despised.

Finally, there is the parable in which Jesus spent 40 days fasting alone in the desert. He is tempted three times by Satan, suggesting that they are two separate beings. However, wise men often wandered into the wilderness to find their true selves by overcoming inner demons. Indeed, no one is recorded as having witnessed the meeting, so it's quite possible that Satan symbolized a side of Jesus that had to be overcome or challenged in some way.

If Jesus and Lucifer are one, does that mean that Jesus is the great deceiver?

If Jesus and Lucifer are one, does that mean that Jesus is the great deceiver?

Lucifer as Jesus Christ

Perhaps the greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he was God. Indeed, what better way to get revenge on a benevolent god than to found a religion that does great evil in his name? This shouldn't be a surprise to anyone:

"And when the thousand years are ended, Satan will be released from his prison and will come out to deceive the nations that are at the four corners of the earth." —Revelation 20:7

"And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light." —Corinthians 11:14

Even the Bible foretold that Satan would deceive the world by masquerading as an angel of light. We are also told that Satan is a tempter, a trickster, and a dealer in chicanery and illusion. Would he appear as the beast or as the answer to our prayers?

Jesus found a poor and squalid land and used miracles and charitable acts to become the people's messiah. He profited from the misery of the masses but did nothing to end their suffering on a permanent basis. Instead, he claimed that our sins would be forgiven if we pledge our souls to him. Even murderers and rapists can ascend to paradise by selling their souls to Christianity. Has the devil-worshiper metaphor gone far enough yet?

For those without a predilection for Christian dogma, this interpretation may be just as plausible (or implausible) as the Christian version. Indeed, many believe the religion spawned by this mythical figure is the source of numerous evils. Those who deny these evils use deception to prevent their discovery, while heaven and hell are wielded to tempt or threaten those who are too vulnerable or desperate to care. But then, that's just what Lucifer would have wanted . . . isn't it?

© 2013 Thomas Swan


Ernest Festus Awudey from Ho, Ghana. on August 06, 2020:

Thanks for your thoughts. But there's absolutely no connection between Satan and Jesus. They are two very different supernatural beings. Jesus is called God. Satan is called the devil. There are some mysteries that you cannot understand by human logic. They are spiritually discern. You can follow me and read on the spirit aspect of my article the Tripartite Nature of Man.

Tim Truzy from U.S.A. on May 02, 2020:

It's crucial to note: why would the king of angels (Jesus Christ) need to be prideful as Lucifer was and still is? Jesus Christ was and still is in charge.

In addition, there is no indication of psychological problems in the mission of Christ (yeah, unless you count that willing to be crucified thing), so Jesus almost certainly didn't have a conversation with His inner self out in the desert.

Another point: Lucifer would not shed anything for anyone. Lucifer wants to be in charge so he probably wouldn't have been born to the poorest type of individuals he could find. Arrogance demands items to support superiority.

However, your concept is interesting. Yet, Revelation indicate all angels shall bow before Him, including Lucifer before being cast into the lake of fire. Again, Jesus Christ did not have split personality syndrome. It would be difficult to bow before yourself.

I know: if Christ is Lucifer, then of course, He would have thousands of mirrors around Him during that point. Christ wasn't vain.

Great article. Intriguing concept but highly questionable.

Elijah A Alexander Jr from Washington DC on June 10, 2018:

Thomas, my studies disagree with your interpretation but not your concept.

The Morning star precedes the morning - and evening at certain times of the year - so the Genesis 1:14's "Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:" is telling us the sun, moon and stars reveals (signs of) man's plight as seasons (4 primary ethnics of Asians, Native Americans, Africans and Europeans), days (11 hours of evening, 1 hour transition, 11 hours of morning and 1 hour transitioning back to evening) and years (the mornings and evenings divided into four seasons each between the ethnics).

Use that to guide our understanding this material world or civilization with Asians as Adam and Noah beginning civilization as spring, Native Americans as Cain and Japheth for summer, Africans and Ham for fall and Europeans for winter's destroyers of everything except evergreen trees or everlasting life. The transition from the spiritual civilization (Rev. 21) is depicted as 7 days of creation, Adam to the flood is this material civilization's sunrise with the flood being spreading it the earth over and that same time representing the Asian and Native American civilizations ending with Abraham who began African (Ham) and European (Jacob who caused "the curse," a destruction to mother earth) civilizations.

Now that we are nearing the end of the terminating 80 years (parable of the fig tree) of the fig tree's with Psalms 90:10 giving us 80 years for a generation's passing that budded May 1948, Lucifer created the circumstances of that budding, the "House of Rothschild" who instigated the return of the people "who call themselves Jews but are not" to Israel's homeland. That makes him, we will say, "the evening star" foretelling the sunset of this civilization and the birth of the Branch from the root of Jesse via David (Isaiah 11:1-12 & Revelation 5:5 & 5:12).

Other than that revelation being missed - common because of believing Jesus will be the second Christ but is not - so if you can incorporate that revelation into your text we will agree fully.


CharlesDickens696 on January 10, 2018:

I am the spawn of Lucifer. I was born in the darkness fear me. fear me ye of little faith of my power.

AF Mind on June 03, 2017:


Isaiah 14:12-14

"How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!"

"For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of Yah: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:"

"I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High."

See, Christians misinterpret this and think that Lucifer was the highest angel who then became prideful and rebelled, resulting in him being cast down. But I want you to notice something. Isaiah 14 isn't dealing with celestial angels. It is about a prophecy regarding the children of Jacob.

Now go back to Isaiah 14 12, but read until verses 15 and 16. Notice how in 16 it says, "Is this the MAN that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;". Why would they be calling Lucifer a man if he is a spirit? Why didn't they say angel? Because Lucifer is basically a name used for the ruler of Babylon, not the name of a spiritual being.

The N.I.V. and other modern versions have set out the text of Isaiah chapters 13-23 as a series of “burdens” on various nations, e.g. Babylon, Tyre, Egypt. Isaiah 14: 4, sets the context of the verses we are considering: “Thou shalt take up this proverb (parable) against the king of Babylon...” (Isaiah 14 4). The prophecy is therefore about the human king of Babylon, who is described as “Lucifer”. On his fall: “they that see thee shall...consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble...?” (v. 16). Thus Lucifer is clearly defined as a man. Lucifer was a human king , “All kings of the nations...shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?” (vs. 9-10). Lucifer was therefore a king like any other king.

There's a good reason why the King of Babylon is described as "the morning star", or Venus. The Babylonians believed that their king was the child of their gods Bel and Ishtar, both of whom were associated with the planets- they thought that their King was the planet Venus.

The passage about "Lucifer" is referencing a Babylonian myth. Heylel, the morning star (Venus), tried to climb the walls of the northern city of the gods to make himself king of heaven, only to be driven from the sky by the rising sun. In Isaiah 14:12-20 this mythis given a historical application. Isaiah is mocking the myth, and saying that the King of Babylon was acting like Heylel in the myth- but would be thrown down not by another planet, but by the Almighty himself.

I could go on about Ezekiel 28, but I found an article by fellow Hubber Alexander Gibb who covered it.

Sharon on August 01, 2015:

Morning star, crescent moon. Mohammad. Muslim religion.

Thomas Swan (author) from New Zealand on March 23, 2015:

Thank you Jesus. I look forward to our meeting. I will count on your powers of forgiveness to see me into the light!

Jesus H. Christ on March 23, 2015:

Hey man!

This is one diabolical slur on ma Holy Moly Name. I made this world, dude, and don't you forget it. To hell with your crazy Atheist articulations! One day I'm a-comin back an' me an' my bro' Luci gonna gitcha.

Hellfire, Dude! Hell-freakin'-fire!



Thomas Swan (author) from New Zealand on October 26, 2014:

Thank you to the guest commenters for your interesting words. I can agree with most of what you've said.

Thanks for dropping in Buildreps. I do like your interpretation as it fits with my belief that we should move away from religion and discover what it means to be human, how best to survive in this world, and how to care for each other in a way that benefits us all. I see religious people propping up obscene, corporate systems and corrupt governments simply because those systems present them with empty platitudes about how wonderful their religion is.

Actions speak louder than words, and if Christians really believed in Jesus' works and teachings, they would be outraged by the disgusting inequality, corruption, hatred, and war in our world - not calling for it themselves, or propping up systems that perpetuate it. So yes, religion is holding us back.

I actually agree that mixing Jesus and the devil is a misinterpretation. For me, there is no correct interpretation for what's in the Bible. It's all misinterpreted. I guess I'm saying that my rehashing of this fairy tale is no less appropriate than the rehashing that's become accepted by a third of the world as truth.

Buildreps from Europe on October 22, 2014:

I had some progressive insights recently. God (OT) and the Devil are the same - definitely. This is Yahweh or Jaldabaoth who was cast from heaven to below and called himself God and rules over the ignorant mankind, standing between man and their Soul.

Christ on his turn came to earth to tell people that God is inside them (their Soul). The second coming of Christ is what most Christians take literally (oh, again). What is meant with the second coming of Christ is that mankind discovers that their Christ is inside and that "god" is not their supreme ruler but in fact a deceptive one standing between them and the highest dimension. Jesus was the one who brought humanity this message already 2000 years ago.

Mixing Jesus with the devil is a misinterpretation in my humble opinion.

frank burns on June 01, 2014:

They are obviously the same. There was no devil or Jesus in Judaism until they went to Persia. There they got Jesus/Devil from Zoroastrianism. Any Jew knows this. Satan is the Great Deceiver, and has deceived about 1/2 of the world.

raspat on May 21, 2014:

I think that all of us has little truth but never unify that comment. Here's mine short and simple. By words babilon means confusion. That's why we must get out of her. The name Jesus is the mistake we make the devils has change the true name of God and having us praise an unknown God. For the word Jesus itself those not mean Yeshua. Yeshua in English is Joshua. So we all are debating a topic that is endless confusion. One advise a person with the spirit is a son. God as the devil works through man. Simple we are evil or good. The truth you nail in saying that Christ was fighting the inner demons in the temptation. He came to show us the way and all if want to see heaven must fight our inner evil. We know Christ had the decision to do good or evil and like Adam and eve at creation. Same with Christ and us the temptation is there as long as we have that free choice. We must defeat this.

All who have his spirit will know the truth. Congrats doh on your efforts to look outside the box. For the world has lost it's knowledge. All is wrong no Christian religion is righteous. We must look in our self and like Christ change the evil to divinity. The passage where the Bible refer to the morning stars bisnall telling us that we where and at a point must make one decision ether to remain evil or become sons of God therefore divine. Bless.

Thomas Duncan on May 11, 2014:

Well done, Thomas Swan, entertaining ring. I'm not an expert or well versed on the NT or OT. Jesus and Lucifer Christ seem to be two separate entities, as Jesus is supposed to be the (first) biological child of God while Lucifer was the first Angel, whom rebelled against God. I mean, the notion is entertaining but preposterous.

Lucifer is a fascinating figure, as well as Satan and Beelzebub, whom I think are 3 separate entities. Lucifer and Satan are different, while Satan and Sameal may be the same, just my theory. It was Satan not Lucifer that was trying to tell Jesus to abandon his campaign because he was going to be crucified, from what I remember.

It's difficult after centuries of interpretations, translations and changes made to the original story.

Thomas Swan (author) from New Zealand on April 24, 2014:

Thank you also Sam Elder for your kind words. I'm sorry I missed your comment before. Yes, I found the comments quite interesting and pleasantly non-argumentative for the most part. I hope they inspired you to write a hub of your own!

Thomas Swan (author) from New Zealand on April 24, 2014:

Thanks for commenting Buildreps. Also, thanks for directing me to that ancient writing. I have just searched for and favorited the "emerald tablets of Thoth" to read later. The Bible would be a much more interesting book if Jesus was actually a "wolf in sheep's clothing", or the "dark brightness" from Thoth. Perhaps it also brings new meaning to the phrase "the road to hell is paved with good intentions". If Christianity were a Luciferian cult, hell would be overflowing with Christians.

Buildreps from Europe on April 24, 2014:

Very interesting article, Thomas. I browsed trough your inspiring articles. You managed to connect different passages of the bible to one convincing statement. It made me think of a passage of Thoth "..but weigh in the balance if his words be of light. For many there are who walk in dark brightness and yet are not the children of light".

SAM ELDER from Home on November 07, 2013:

Comment section is really an inspiration for new article...

I enjoyed this one... I like that you express straightly your point of view...

I like your hub and I respect your logic and your believes...

Thomas Swan (author) from New Zealand on October 08, 2013:

Thanks Wiccan. Yea, I heard about it around 10 years ago now. It just stuck with me all that time for some reason. It would be a great story if true. Much more interesting than the Bible IMO! Christians know a fair bit about the Bible, but I've found they think with certain absolute truths in place. This can lead to assumptions about what happens to the Jews, even though their religion has different ideas that would have been relevant up until Christianity took hold. I should have clarified in the previous comment that Jews don't have much concept of heaven either, though there are a few mentions of continued existence after death, and reuniting with loved ones.

Mackenzie Sage Wright on October 08, 2013:

I've heard this argument before, but you argue it really well. Honestly myself I don't believe the Bible, or in Jesus or Satan, but it serves as another example that the Bible can support any argument anyone wants.

I wasn't surprised to see the comment section exploding, lol. But as a scanned through it I was struck yet again by how little Christians actually know about Judaism (ie, that Satan is not a fallen angel, there is no hell, the messiah is supposed to be human, there's no such concept of salvation, etc.). I always find it funny when Christians try to argue Christianity through Jewish beliefs, when they're getting the Jewish beliefs all wrong.

Thomas Swan (author) from New Zealand on October 03, 2013:

Uh, that's just not true though. Jews get to heaven by observing Jewish law. This involves`mitzvot' which is to uphold the commandments by performing good deeds, acts of kindness, charity, and `tikkun olam' (repairing the world). Explained here:

This idea of being "saved" has nothing to do with the Old Testament.

christiananrkist on October 03, 2013:

I would read the old testament again. they were saved the same as we are now. by God's grace. not by works.

I basically don't have anything else to say then if you don't believe Satan is real, and your only source comes from the bible. Because of this in order to make the argument of Jesus being Satan, you must essentially pick and choose certain verses of the bible, then impose your own context and meaning into them and making a brand new story which you wrote. This argument can never work using the christian bible in its correct context, because it is very clear who is who.

Thomas Swan (author) from New Zealand on October 03, 2013:

I think Jesus existed in history as a human being who became the leader of a large cult that later became a religion. I don't think Satan is real, but if Jesus was Satan, then the New Testament was written by people he deceived. My only source is the Bible.

"Christianity is not a saved by works religion. we are save by grace, through faith alone, so that no one can boast."

Christianity was formed after Jesus died though. As far as I know, Yahweh rewards those who follow his commandments; those who do good on the Earth. Even so, the Jews didn't have any definitive idea of heaven. The purpose of Jesus/Lucifer's good deeds may have been to try to reconcile with God so he could become an angel again. It would explain the experiences he had in the desert... the internal struggle between good and evil inside him.

christiananrkist on October 03, 2013:

I see what you saying now. Sorry, I missed that about Jesus deceiving people. I guess I'm a little confused though about what you're saying. Just a few questions for ya if you don't mind. Sometimes it takes a while for me to you think Jesus is real? Is Satan real? Assuming Satan is real, besides the bible, what reliable information do we have about him? Are you basing knowledge of and information of Satan you get from the bible, or from another source? If its from another source, I can't really argue or defend any of this. If its from the bible, then everything the bible says must be taken into consideration when making this argument work. Specifically the arguments of Jesus and Lucifer being the same and Jesus deceiving people because of it. If the information is coming from the bible, it clearly states who Jesus is, that he did predict his betrayal,was the messiah and other points I have made. I actually don't normally look to the bible for answers when objecting to atheist's arguments or discussing certain questions. In this case however, I don't think we can make an argument for who Jesus was or who Satan was without turning to scripture. Unless of course like I said you have other sources (which i would like to see) on Satan, in which I can't make arguments for, because they would most likely not correlate with what the bible teaches and what I would believe.

Just a side note on your last question. Based on scripture you cannot "buy" your way into heaven no matter how many works. Christianity is not a saved by works religion. we are save by grace, through faith alone, so that no one can boast.

Michele Travis from U.S.A. Ohio on October 03, 2013:

Sorry, should have put it in my own words. Was being lazy. you did the right thing.

Thomas Swan (author) from New Zealand on October 03, 2013:

Thanks Michelle for the comment. I removed only because it had a paragraph copied from wiki. If Jesus was sweating blood because he was stressed, it could have been because he knew the Romans were after him. I don't know though. I'd have to know the specific time it happened.

Thomas Swan (author) from New Zealand on October 03, 2013:


"to suggest Jesus wanted to replace God or pretended to be God would be the same as saying God wanted to replace or pretended to be God."

That requires the pre-belief that Jesus IS God though. My starting point is that Jesus was deceiving people into thinking he was God. It's the same with his name. If people who thought he was God called him Jesus, this only suggests that they were deceived.

What I meant by "he became their messiah" was "he became popular and achieved notoreity". Whatever his title may have been, I'm speaking in real physical terms here. If he had stayed at home his whole life, he wouldn't have become the people's messiah in the way I meant it.

The way I see it, Jesus and his entourage found food and a place to sleep in most of the places they visited. I imagine his reputation as a prophet spread just as quickly, prompting the good will of the people he (may have) duped. Presumably they set up camp a few times on their travels, hunted wild animals, and sang around the campfire too. Nothing wrong with living the nomad life for a bit in the early days.

I don't think that quote proves he knew he would be crucified. Think of it this way... if Jesus' followers believed he was a special prophet from God, or even the Son of God, then how would they reconcile this with the notion of him being executed like any other man? Of course they'll say it was all part of his plan. Also, he knew that the Romans had a warrant for his arrest long before they finally caught him.

Even so, if we go back to a supernatural interpretation for a moment. Isn't it possible that Lucifer was performing these deeds in order to buy his way back into heaven? If that were the case, then death was part of his plan.

christiananrkist on October 02, 2013:

I actually wasn't pointing out that your interpretation requires you to suggest that Jesus also wanted to replace God. What I was trying to point out is that Jesus and Satan could not be the same entity. I'm sure you already know based on John 1:1

In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God.

to suggest Jesus wanted to replace God or pretended to be God would be the same as saying God wanted to replace or pretended to be God.

Lucifer is another name for Satan. Jesus is not. Why not? Because Jesus or Yeshua translates to the Lord saves. Lucifer is translated as the morning star. This is what I meant when I was saying names meant something to the Jewish. They didn't just pick random name. they picked names that literally described someone. This is why you also see people going by more than one name in the bible as i pointed out earlier.

To be fair I don't think most of your hub is speculation. you give scripture to back you your claims and make some good points to think about. I'm just giving my reasons why I disagree. I did think the virgin birth argument is speculative though.

I understand I'm being pedantic on Job. I apologize for that. I just think the little things matter so others can do their own research if they want.

2Corinthians11:14 actually says Satan disguised/masquerades/transforms himself AS an angel of light. I can see where there would be confusion here though, especially with the transform translation. I still hold to the notion that its communicating the devil will often use the truth to spread his deception. I will definitely do more research on this and find other supporting scripture.

Jesus didn't become messiah. He already was. the word messiah, the annointed one. Where do you find that he lived fairly well? He was on a constant travel. You see this in several area's where it says he went to, arrived at, came to. In Luke 9:58 when speaking to a man that wanted to follow him, he let the man know what it entailed to be a follower. "And Jesus said to him, “The foxes have holes and the birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay His head.

I'm not sure why you would doubt Jesus knew the Romans would crucify him.

Matthew 26:39

And He went a little beyond them, and fell on His face and prayed, saying, “My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me; yet not as I will, but as You will.”

Jesus definitely knew the horrors that awaited him. Another gospel says sweat ran down his head like drops of blood.

What did Jesus lose if he was Resurrected? This is like asking what did the innocent man who went to prison in the place of a loved one lose because he was still released later. Jesus took on the sins of the world. An agony none of us could imagine.

Thomas Swan (author) from New Zealand on October 02, 2013:

That's certainly possible Michele. I think what the hub shows is there are many ways to interpret scripture. Whichever interpretation we end up believing is usually that which we most want to believe. I'm glad you found it interesting.

Cheers MysticMoonlight! Oh I was a right terror back then. I considered putting phosphorus into holy water so I could pretend I was a demon being burned by it. I thought better of it though!

Thanks sparkster. Agreed, I think the comments make these sort of hubs worthwhile!

Thomas Swan (author) from New Zealand on October 02, 2013:

Thanks for commenting Christiananrkist. I agree with your interpretation of Isaiah 14:12. My interpretation is simply that Lucifer is called the morning star, and this is the same name that is used for Jesus. As you rightly point out, this requires me to suggest that Jesus also wanted to replace God. This could be why he pretended to be God in the flesh, and flaunted his powers in seemingly benevolent ways. However, I would contend that charity is not inherently good if it fails to raise a person from their squalor. Give a starving man a loaf of bread and he’ll be starving again tomorrow. Anyway, that’s a deeper philosophical discussion.

I get the idea that Lucifer becomes Satan after the fall from the Christian tradition that Lucifer and Satan are both “evil”, and both supposedly fell from heaven. If they’re not the same being, I would be surprised. Nevertheless, I admitted that the connection is a shaky one. Names do mean a lot in scripture, but just read Revelation 12:7 again… “And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan”. Here we see four names being used for the same entity. Why would Lucifer not be another of his names? Why would Jesus not be?

You talk about speculation when it comes to divine births, and you’re right. Most of the hub is speculation!

You’re being a little pedantic about Job. I did actually quote Job 38:6 and 38:7 from the KJV. It’s also clear from what I quoted that it is a question (hence the question mark).

Revelation 20:7 is merely to show that the devil is a deceiver and trickster on a mass scale. That’s the point I am making. Also the devil doesn’t need to “create” to trick men into creating a religion around him. I see the sentence of mine you picked up on though, and I have now edited that accordingly.

I disagree with you on Corinthians 11:12. It says Satan can appear as an angel of light. It refers to Satan’s servants as being false apostles, not Satan himself. With Job 1:12, one instance of Satan backing down when God tells him to doesn’t stop him from repeatedly deceiving people when God says nothing. My understanding is that God allows Satan to tempt and deceive people in order to test them.

I will change tricks for miracles in the hub. Jesus did profit from misery, and he did nothing to permanently help the people in any physical way. He became a messiah, and it looks to me like he lived fairly well. I doubt he knew that the Romans would crucify him, but if he rose from the dead, what did he lose?

Thanks again for your comment.

Marc Hubs from United Kingdom on October 02, 2013:

Interesting hub... hilarious comments!!

MysticMoonlight on October 02, 2013:

Thomas, I actually LOL'd at this:

Back when I was a mischievous 19 year old, I made up a dream with a lot of symbolism to suggest Lucifer and Jesus were the same, and sent it in an email to a Christian website to see what they would say. However, they didn't pick up on the connection and just gave me the usual "it might not mean what you think" talk. Oh well :( hehe

I cannot stop laughing! Your sense of humor is just awesome!

Michele Travis from U.S.A. Ohio on October 02, 2013:

Perhaps it is like The Morning Star is something like the Anti Christ.

And the Bright and Morning Star IS Christ.

Just wondering.

This is an interesting hub, by the way.

Thomas Swan (author) from New Zealand on October 02, 2013:

Thanks MysticMoonlight. Oh I think atheists have said far worse. I tried to stick to the bare facts without throwing any real certainty behind my interpretation of them. There have also been a fair few people who have made the connection without too much trouble. Saying it 400 years ago would have been brave!

Thomas Swan (author) from New Zealand on October 02, 2013:

That's an interesting story A Thousand Words, and I understand that you don't believe either is real. The confusion quote is also very relevant here as you say.

I agree that your dream probably represented your mind trying to symbolically reconcile contradictions and hypocrisies in the religion.

Your dream experience brought up a strange memory of my own. Back when I was a mischievous 19 year old, I made up a dream with a lot of symbolism to suggest Lucifer and Jesus were the same, and sent it in an email to a Christian website to see what they would say. However, they didn't pick up on the connection and just gave me the usual "it might not mean what you think" talk. Oh well :( hehe

Thomas Swan (author) from New Zealand on October 02, 2013:

Thanks for commenting Michelle Travis. There are quite a few mentions of Jesus being called a morning star, and not all of them refer to him being a "bright" morning star. It's harder to find mentions of Lucifer. Perhaps if there were more, he would also be called "bright" some of the time. However, his name essentially means "light bringer" or "shining one" so I don't think there's much need to qualify his brightness.

christiananrkist on October 02, 2013:

Hi Thomas. Interesting Hub. I think your mistaken in a few areas however.

Lets take a closer look at isaiah 14:12. Satan as well as the Babylonian king is referred to as the morning star. But much in the same way a person may be referred to as a Judas. This scripture is communicating that Satan WANTED TO BE GOD. How do we know this. Lets take a look at the next few verses.

Isaiah 14:13-14

“But you said in your heart, ‘I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God, And I will sit on the mount of assembly In the recesses of the north. ‘I will ascend above the heights of the clouds;I will make myself like the Most High.’

Its very clear when read in its context, that Isaiah 14:12 isn't equating Satan with Jesus by referring to him as the morning star, but communicating that he wanted to take God's place. So I think its safe to say you can't use this passage to say Satan and Jesus are the same entities.

You're really taking a huge leap in your comparative mythology section. Not sure where you get the idea in Christian tradition that Lucifer becomes Satan after the fall. Even if this were backed up by scripture, it wouldn't matter. Names meant a lot to the Jewish community. Its not unlikely he would have been referred as a different name based on his actions. Much like Naomi changing her name to Mara or Saul changing his name to Paul. You say its not inconceivable that Lucifers appearance required him to be born to a human mother. Your right. Its not inconceivable. However its also not communicated in the bible. God did however make angels appear in human form without being born to a human mother. This argument really seems to have to invoke the power of speculation to make it work.

Now lets take a look at Job38:6 (the verse you actually want to highlight by the way is 38:7). Or who laid its cornerstone, When the morning stars sang together

And all the sons of God shouted for joy? This ends in a question. Maybe we should look at more than one verse.


When the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy? “Or who enclosed the sea with doors when, bursting forth, it went out from the womb; when I made a cloud its garment and thick darkness its swaddling band,

reading the text in its proper context (that being Hebrew poetry) the morning stars are the sons of God that are mentioned. These passages seem to follow a common parallel format found in the surrounding text. For instance in verse 5

5 Who determined its measurements—surely you know!

Or who stretched the line upon it?

Notice here the 2 lines communicate the same thing. Then in verse 6.

6 On what were its bases sunk,

or who laid its cornerstone,

Same thing here. And so on and so on, including verse 7. Remember words are equivocal not univocal.

Lucifer as Jesus Christ:

Here you give an interesting example on how Satan could be deceiving the world by quoting Revelation 20:7. notice in this passage though this is speaking of the end times. It hasn't happened yet. Although Satan is a deceiver, you can't use this particular passage to make your point. You say Satan is described as a tempter, a trickster, and a dealer in chicanery and illusion. This is true. However, notice there is nothing that suggest creative power. In 2Corinthians 11:14 where Satan disguises himself as an angel of light, it is in the context of comparing Satan to false apostles. How do we know? Again lets look at more than 1 verse.

2Corinthians 11:12-15

But what I am doing I will continue to do, so that I may cut off opportunity from those who desire an opportunity to be regarded just as we are in the matter about which they are boasting. For such men are false apostles,deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness, whose end will be according to their deeds.

Much like there are still false teachers in the church today even. This passage does not suggest that Satan has creative power to literally change his form to appear as Jesus. The basic premise is that Satan will often use the truth in order to deceive. You see this when he tempted Eve and again when he temps Jesus by quoting scripture. Also notice in Job, Satan needs God's permission to do something.


.”Then the Lord said to Satan, “Behold, all that he has is in your power, only do not put forth your hand on him.” So Satan departed from the presence of the Lord.

When comparing Jesus to Satan you use a slick use of words when you say he uses TRICKS and charity. These are not tricks. They were miracles. If you're going to use the bible to make your case, you can't impose your own use of words on it. Your say Jesus PROFITED from the misery of the masses. Doing things that ultimately lead up to his torture and death, while never having a proper place to lay his head is hardly profiting.

MysticMoonlight on October 01, 2013:

Interesting read, Thomas. Very gutsy of you, I admire that. Most people are too scared to think about this possibility and definitely too scared to write about it so I commend you on your bravery writing on such a delicate subject!

As far as whether this is true or not, I don't know. What I can say is that anything is possible. Much of what we think we know is just that, what we think we know.

Michele Travis from U.S.A. Ohio on October 01, 2013:

A Thousand Words, sometimes our dreams are trying to tell us more about ourselves. I don't know, but some dreams are vivid. Your comments are very interesting.

A Thousand Words on October 01, 2013:

Oh and side note: When I say "Maybe it was my unconscious mind picking up on something," I don't mean that I actually believe that Jesus is the Devil, because I don't believe that either one exists. I mean more that maybe it was telling me something I thought was so kind and full of light wasn't what I though it was. And that's something I'm coming to understand more and more in my journey of finding myself.

A Thousand Words on October 01, 2013:

You know, it's funny because the thought crossed my mind just the other day. I'm a former believer, and one of my former pastors (who called himself a prophet) used to always say that God is not the author of confusion, and yet what has caused more confusion in the world than the NT? People call Jesus the Prince of Peace, but the very Bible also states that Jesus will set daughter against father and son against mother (I'm paraphrasing), that if you don't hate your father and mother you cannot serve him. That sounds like a Prince of Division. How many people have died for the sake of the spread of this religion? Christians won't admit that it would've have been so far spread if it hadn't been for the Crusades and hundreds of thousands if not more people being murdered if they did not become Christian!

And you know what? Back when I was religious, I'll never forget this. I went to a private Christian college in middle-of-nowhere Georgia. I had a dream that I was being raped by demons in my dorm room. They didn't look especially evil, though, they were like these dark silhouettes, but you could tell they were demons. I was so scared that I started praying really hard that Jesus would come help me. And then they went away and he appears with this kind smile. But then he becomes a demon himself, and I had never experienced such heartache and disappointment. And then I woke up. I never knew what it meant. Maybe it was my unconscious mind picking up on something? I don't know. But this seemed like THE perfect hub to post it in.

Michele Travis from U.S.A. Ohio on September 30, 2013:

Hi Thomas Swan Lucifer was called "morning star" Jesus is called "The Bright and Morning Star" There is a difference in meanings of those two names.

Its like when Lucifer is called the prince of darkness and Jesus is the Prince of Peace.

Thomas Swan (author) from New Zealand on September 30, 2013:

enamateur, I agree. Christians tend to value works that have "stood the test of time" rather than works that are improved or discarded as new evidence arises. I think that's one of the main reasons why they are disposed to reject science.

Thomas Swan (author) from New Zealand on September 30, 2013:

Thanks Colleen!

Thomas Swan (author) from New Zealand on September 30, 2013:

Thanks Ranzi, Jesus certainly did preach some loving stuff. Hopefully it was genuine and not for acquiring power.

Thomas Swan (author) from New Zealand on September 30, 2013:

Thanks for commenting graceinus. Heh, well, I did warn you! If the theory described in the hub is correct, my blasphemy is an act of God. You're right though, I didn't set out to offend people... I "could" care less but I'm glad I don't care less!

There's no need to attack other commenters. I don't believe a true, benevolent God would approve of that.

Thomas Swan (author) from New Zealand on September 30, 2013:

Thanks Mel, it's nice to see someone who can gracefully disagree. I wrote this because I've noticed how Christians love to reinterpret the Bible when it becomes politically incorrect. I thought I'd show where interpretation can lead. I don't believe what I've said any more than I believe anything else in the Bible. IMO, no-one fell from heaven!

graceinus from those of the Ekklesia on September 30, 2013:

This will be my last comment in this Hub so I will make the following very clear. This Hub is full of blasphemy from start to finish. And any so called christian who respects the statements and writes a comment showing his or her respect for the statements contained within this Hub is a coward for not standing up for Jesus Christ.

Cut The Bullshit from All Over on September 30, 2013:

Grace, who are you to use God's actions to defend your own? And let's not forget what Jesus christ said before he took his last breath after facing humiliation, torture and betrayel, "father forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing?" There is no need to have such a righhtous attitute just because you have studies the bible inside out which has left your mind to perceive it in such a fanatical manner. Do I like that Jesus is being compared to the devil? of course not! Do I agree, definitely not. But I do appreciate that if there is a God then he has given us free will and a brain to think the way we want. As long as Thomas is not insulting believers and calling them names. In the end you're quite a rude and aggressive lady Grace and there's a famous quote from the bible which I feel is relavent for this post. "Do no feed pearls to swine." God bless you

Perry on September 30, 2013:

I don't trust the bible, it hasn't been updated in some time.

graceinus from those of the Ekklesia on September 30, 2013:

Rani-This goes to show you how much ignorance you have regarding Jesus Christ. I can quote a number of verses in the bible where Jesus called people liers, vipers and hypocrites while defending our Father in heaven. And you can bet Jesus was angry. So much so He was turning over tables and whipping people. So before showing your ignorance again try studying the bible.

Cut The Bullshit from All Over on September 29, 2013:

Graceinus you are one hypocrite who is not turning the other cheek. You are rude, aggressive and have so much pent up anger that Jesus himself would be so disappointed in you behaviour. You must be related to the crusaders.

Colleen Swan from County Durham on September 29, 2013:

A hell of an article; well done.

Cut The Bullshit from All Over on September 29, 2013:

Im not a believer in a God, but if there is one man I hold in the highest regard whether he is fiction or real and that is Jesus. The love he preached is overwhelming. However Thomas I will have to give you much credit for your research and thinking outside the box.

graceinus from those of the Ekklesia on September 29, 2013:

Just like I said, a coward.

Mel Carriere from Snowbound and down in Northern Colorado on September 29, 2013:

I'm not going to get into a shouting match on someone else's hub. This is exactly why some people get turned off by Christianity, because of blind fanaticism. God bless you.

graceinus from those of the Ekklesia on September 29, 2013:

MEL- cARRIERE- Answer my question.

Mel Carriere from Snowbound and down in Northern Colorado on September 29, 2013:

If the apostles had used your same judgmental approach Christianity would have never taken root. Instead of damning others with abusive language why don't you offer them a blessing?

graceinus from those of the Ekklesia on September 29, 2013:

Mel Carriere-Who said anything about burning people at the stake or an Inquisition. I said it's blasphemy and you're a coward. How do yo you get burning people at the stake and inquisition out of that. As a christian I have every right to speak out against blasphemy. You coward.

Mel Carriere from Snowbound and down in Northern Colorado on September 29, 2013:

Graceinus all your intolerant attitude does is add fuel to the fire of non believers. Should we bring back the Inquisition and burn all non-Christians at the stake?

graceinus from those of the Ekklesia on September 29, 2013:

Thomas Swan- This is flat out blasphemy against Jeusu Christ, which you evidently could care less.

Mel Carriere- You respect his articulated statement. If you are a christian then you are coward for not standing up for Jesus Christ..

Mel Carriere from Snowbound and down in Northern Colorado on September 29, 2013:

I predict you are going to get a lot of very spirited feedback on this one. Although I can't agree with you, I respect your very well articulated statement.

Related Articles