Adam Was Not the First Human, for the Bible Tells Us So

Updated on January 8, 2019
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For as long as he can remember, Jeremy has been formulating theories that reconcile his fascination with science and his faith in God.

"God Created Evolution" is a project consisting of multiple articles that evaluate the first 11 books of Genesis in the context of known history and modern science.
"God Created Evolution" is a project consisting of multiple articles that evaluate the first 11 books of Genesis in the context of known history and modern science.

Was Adam the First Human?

The creation of man in Genesis has always been read to mean that Adam was the first human God created. Why is that exactly? This isn't stated anywhere. In fact, what it actually says is that God created humans on day 6 of the creation account in chapter 1, then God rested on day 7 at the beginning of chapter 2, then comes the story of Adam's creation. It's nothing more than an assumption that these are two tellings of the same event.

For most of recorded human history, it really didn't matter. The events listed in the creation account were of little consequence. Whether God created all the earth in six days or in 4.54 billion years was irrelevant as there was no way of knowing one way or the other. There wasn't any reason to even suspect it was any different than how it read, and the overall message of the Bible didn't hinge on it.

Today, it does matter. In these modern times, we now understand more about the history of the earth and humanity than ever before. Modern understanding has proven to be in direct conflict with traditional interpretations of Genesis. This has resulted in many rejecting the Bible as nothing more than mythology, and many others rejecting modern wisdom and scientific progress as false.

The creation versus evolution debate has come to be one of the most divisive topics we face. Many people of faith fight tooth and nail to keep topics like evolution out of the school curriculum, and many others don't see why their children must remain in the dark because some people can't let go of their old religious beliefs.

The interpretation that says Adam was the first man in existence is the primary misconception that makes the Bible and modern science seemingly incompatible. Correcting this one small error takes pre-flood Genesis out of the realm of mythology and plants it firmly into known history.

Sumerian writing tablet recording the allocation of beer.
Sumerian writing tablet recording the allocation of beer. | Source

The Mythology of the First Civilization

Civilization first began in Mesopotamia over five thousand years ago, and the Sumerians are credited as the inventors. They built the first cities that ever existed, with populations in the tens of thousands made possible through their development of large-scale year-round agriculture.

Throughout the rise of civilization the Sumerians became talented builders. They also created the first government, the first laws, arithmetic, astronomy/astrology, the wheel, sailboats, frying pans, razors, harps, kilns for firing bricks and pottery, bronze hand tools, and plows, to name just a few.

Not long after large-scale agriculture first began, a crude form of writing was developed out of the need to keep records of labor and materials. Another first accredited to the Sumerians. Over the centuries that followed, writing became more advanced and they began to record stories passed down through generations that explained how their people came up with all of these ideas that would forever change the human race. The funny thing is, these stories didn't give credit to their ancestors. They claim they were taught by immortal human-like gods.

The Sumerian and Akkadian tablets where these Sumerian stories are found predate the oldest books of the bible by over a thousand years by our best scholarly estimations. Some of these tablets contain stories that share many very similar components to stories found in early Genesis, including the story of Adam and Eve, the biblical flood, and the confusing of a once universal language. Numerous tablets from throughout the latter part of the 3rd millennium BC containing these stories have been found all around Mesopotamia, suggesting they were very well known in the region during that time. Because of this, it has become a more and more common assumption that some of the stories found in early Genesis were actually inspired by these ancient tales.

There’s no doubt Sumerian mythology had an impact on subsequent civilizations. The Akkadians were definitely inspired by this first civilization, considering they basically adopted much of the Sumerian lifestyle, including their mythology. Greek and Roman mythology also contains echoed themes that suggest the roots of their beliefs may have come from the well-known Sumerian beliefs as well. They all speak of multiple immortal gods, human in form, both male and female, who were fallible, moody, and often at odds with each other, and they all speak of the intermingling between these immortal beings and mortal humans, producing demigods and titans.

Were There People Before Adam and Eve?

If the creation of Adam in Genesis happened in an already populated world, given the time frame and location specified, then the humans who eventually became the Sumerians would have been the people that populated the landscape.

The Books of Moses

Other than the obvious correlation between a handful of stories in early Genesis with Sumerian mythology, the Books of Moses are very much unique.

The most obvious quality that differentiates them from the others is that in this story there is only one God. The Greeks were fascinated by these books, which is why some of the oldest manuscripts of the Torah that still exist today are written in Greek. They also had a strong impact on the Romans, who after over a century of Christian persecution legalized Christianity, then a few decades later made it the only legal religion. What's more, the books have continuously been an ever-present influence on the western world in every age since. Today, the Books of Moses serve as the foundation for the world’s two largest religions, making up half the world’s population, three thousand years later. No other writings from these ancient civilizations can make that claim.

At the same time, in today’s scientifically enlightened age many dismiss Genesis as nothing more than mythology. There are nearly as many in the non-religious, secular, agnostic, or atheist category as there are Muslims, making them the third largest group behind Christians and Muslims.

One reason for this is because it has been confirmed that those events in early Genesis did not happen. For instance, we’ve confirmed geologically that there has never been a global flood. The last time the entire planet was covered with water was over three billion years ago when land did not yet exist, let alone humans. And we have confirmed genetically that, while every human alive today does actually share a common ancestor, this ancestor existed in Africa tens of thousands of years before the events of Genesis.

Those interpretations of Genesis that say the flood was global and that Adam was the first human to exist were formed centuries ago by people who couldn’t have known any better. Now, we do. Rereading the first five and one-quarter chapters of Genesis for what it actually says, and not for what we’ve always been told it says, tells a very different story that's much more in sync with our modern scientifically-based understanding.

A map of DNA migration.
A map of DNA migration.

What Was the State of the Earth During Genesis?

The first order of business is to establish the proper context. What was the state of the Earth during the time frame in which early Genesis is set?

Pre-Flood Genesis in an Already Populated World Context

We now know that by 10,000 BC homo sapiens had already populated the planet and had over the course of many generations established themselves as the dominant species in the animal kingdom, which is exactly what the humans created in Genesis 1 were commanded to do:

And God blessed them, and God said unto them, "Be fruitful and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it; and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth." (Genesis 1:28)

We also know that humans in this same region were the first to use the seeds in seed baring vegetation to grow food starting around 9,000 BC, which matches up with the illustration in Genesis 1 of God teaching humans. Where these same verses also state that the animals will use these plants for food as well, only with the humans does it specifically talk about the seeds that then bare other seed-bearing plants:

Then God said, “I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food.

And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds in the sky and all the creatures that move along the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food. ” And it was so. (Genesis 1:29-30)

And we also know through climatological evidence that this same region matched the description given at the beginning of Genesis 2 from around 6,200 BC due to the dramatic shift in climate that transformed much of the region from lush green lands to desert. An aridification event often referred to as the 8.2 kiloyear event:

No no shrub had yet appeared on the earth and no plant had yet sprung up, for the Lord God had not sent rain on the earth and there was no one to work the ground. (Genesis 2:5)

Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden.
Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden.

Adam, Eve, and the Garden of Eden

But where the humans (and everything else) in Genesis 1 were specifically told what to do, in Genesis 2 Adam was only told what not to do: He was to eat from any tree but the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, "Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat;

but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it. For in the day that thou eatest thereof, thou shalt surely die." (Genesis 2:16-17)

In fact, the whole theme of the Adam and Eve story has to do with them exhibiting their own individual free will. For instance, one of the very first things it says God did after placing Adam in the garden was to bring the animals to Adam to see what he would call them.

And out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air, and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them; and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof. (Genesis 2:19)

The humans created in Genesis 1 were given very specific commands that would take generations to realize. They were told to:

  • Populate and subdue the Earth
  • Establish dominance in the animal kingdom

So how could Adam, Eve, and their descendants be expected to accomplish these things considering how capable and willing they were to disobey?

Reconsidering things with the idea that Adam was not the first human, but rather was the first human capable of behaving contrary to God's will in an already populated world of humans yields many interesting possibilities both throughout the remainder of the bible itself, as well as far outside of it.

Cain leads able to death.
Cain leads able to death. | Source

Who Were the "Others" That Cain Feared?

Within the Bible, some of the more cryptic and confusing verses in the chapters to follow begin to make much more sense if the region was already populated when Adam was created. Like the unnamed "others" that Cain expressed concern about in chapter 4. The concern God is validated by somehow "marking" him to protect him from harm.

Cain said to the Lord, “My punishment is more than I can bear.

Today you are driving me from the land, and I will be hidden from your presence; I will be a restless wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me.”

But the Lord said to him, “Not so; anyone who kills Cain will suffer vengeance seven times over. ” Then the Lord put a mark on Cain so that no one who found him would kill him. (Genesis 4:13-15)

It also puts a whole new spin on the first few verses of chapter 6, those which talk about the "sons of God" finding the "daughters of humans" beautiful and having children by them. This comes right in the middle of its explanation for why the flood was necessary. It even goes on to explain that humans are mortal and live less than a hundred and twenty years, contrary to the hundreds of years it says Adam and his descendants lived in chapter 5.

And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth and daughters were born unto them,

that the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were fair; and they took for themselves wives of all whom they chose.

And the Lord said, "My Spirit shall not always strive with man, for he also is flesh; yet his days shall be a hundred and twenty years." (Genesis 6:1-3)

Noah's ark.
Noah's ark. | Source

Was the Flood Really Global?

This should be obvious, but many still hold onto the belief that the flood completely covered the entire Earth. Even in the traditional context this would not make sense as the flood occurred just 10 generations after Adam. So Adam's descendants could not have populated more than a small portion of the Earth. There would be no need in that sense to flood the entire planet. Not to mention the fact that the authors of the bible would have no sense of what global really means as the entirety of the Earth from their perspective was the land they lived in.

But even beyond that reasoning, there are a couple of subtle clues that tell us the flood wasn't a global phenomenon that wiped out everything that lived. The first comes at the end of chapter four when the author explains that three of Cain's descendants were the "fathers of all those who: lived in tents and herded cattle, played stringed instruments, made metal tools."

And Adah bore Jabal; he was the father of those who dwell in tents, and of those who have cattle.

And his brother's name was Jubal; he was the father of all those who handle the harp and organ.

And Zillah, she also bore Tubalcain, an instructor of every artificer in brass and iron; and the sister of Tubalcain was Naamah. (Genesis 4:20-22)

These descendants come seven generations after Cain, which is the same number of generations Methuselah was from Seth. Methuselah died the same year as the flood, probably in it. Specifically stating that these descendants "fathered' or "instructed" anyone would be totally pointless if Cain's descendants and everyone else were wiped out in the flood. Plus, it's clear these verses are referring to individuals the intended reader is familiar with, so they couldn't be people who hadn't existed since the flood.

The other clue can be seen in the only two biblical mentions of the 'Nephilim'. One before the flood:

The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men who were of old, the men of renown. (Genesis 6:4)

And one after:

So they brought to the people of Israel a bad report of the land that they had spied out, saying, “The land, through which we have gone to spy it out, is a land that devours its inhabitants, and all the people that we saw in it are of great height.

And there we saw the Nephilim (the sons of Anak, who come from the Nephilim), and we seemed to ourselves like grasshoppers, and so we seemed to them.” (Numbers 13:32-33)

Of course, simply proving the flood wasn't actually global doesn't do much considering the whole purpose of the flood was to wipe out the "wicked" element that had risen in humanity. A localized flood would hardly accomplish that in this already populated world scenario. But, if Adam was the introduction of free will, and wickedness was only possible through free will, then a local flood of the Mesopotamian valley would be all it would take. In fact, that valley, which is a geological equivalent of a storm drain, would be the perfect location to place an element as potentially dangerous as free will.

Adam Was Not the First Man

In this modern age, many will surely find this a bit much to swallow. But in the context of the evolution of life as we understand it, the appearance of a new species of humans with free will and extended lifespans would be no more of a leap than the change from single-celled to multi-celled organisms or the adaptations that made crawling up onto land from the sea possible.

Even in the progression of the Homo genus, there were large leaps forward from one species to the next. However, if an even more advanced species did actually appear just a few thousand years ago, they're certainly not here anymore. Of course, according to the story, they were all washed away by a large flood. Mass extinctions play a crucial role throughout the evolutionary history of life. In that context, the flood was merely the last of many edits that shaped life as we know it today.

Is this possible?

Even if any physical remains that could potentially confirm this theory had been washed out to sea by a large flood, certainly the existence of beings like this would have left some sort of lasting impression, especially if they existed for over sixteen hundred years in a region populated by humans. You might expect to see rapid advancements in intellectual and technological capabilities, like what appears to have happened with the Sumerians and the Egyptians. Or you might expect to see their influence reflected in the mythology written by these ancient civilizations, like what can be seen in the Sumerian, Akkadian, Babylonian, Greek, and Roman stories: Immortal beings who lived the equivalent of ten mortal lifespans who were exceptionally wise and knowledgeable in agricultural practices, who were prone to human emotion, who bred with mortal humans and created beings of both bloodlines, then disappeared.

Chapter 1 of the Book of Genesis (Video)

© 2012 Jeremy Christian

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    • profile image

      Antonio50S 

      11 hours ago

      Ok Jeremy. I understand what your saying now, it took a while.

      As i said, nobody can dispute Egypt or the Sumerians ever existed. Despite Abraham being in Egypt, either way Egypt and the Sumerians existed independently of Abraham, and still came out of that flood irrespective of the time period.

      The King list supports that, Even Egypt had records of the biblical flood. The rest are just Time Frame details which don't change the main events that happened.

      If we check out the population of the ancient Egyptians "Independently" of the bible, it becomes clear why pharaoh became afraid of the Israelite numbers. ( Exodus 1:7-9 ) No need for that if pharoah knew about the previous pharaohs dealings in regards to Joseph and the famine. That's also one reason why Israel grew so large and rapidly.

      What is certain, Egypt had a large population and the Israelites were begining to match that.

      No matter what anyone says or thinks, these are historical Facts.

    • profile image

      Antonio50S 

      15 hours ago

      Here's a thought Jeremy. Something i forgot to add.

      Over a period of 400 years while Israel was in captivity under the pharaohs, They grew to over 600,000 men, besides women and children which would take the figure up to about 2 Million in total.

      "David Rohl" also shows the Israelites ( In that number ) "suddenly" left there dwelling homes in Egypt, in agreement with the Exodus.

      ( Exodus 12:37 )

      If Egypt and the Sumerians could live in them numbers, so could the Israeltes.

    • profile image

      Antonio50S 

      16 hours ago

      To be fair Jeremy, you probably understand these times frames better than me because really, I'm usless on that. But i also know that's how things happened, "give or take"

      If you wan't a better understanding of these Time Frames, "David Rohl" Egyptologist is the man. He wrote the book "A Test of Time" "The Bible from Myth to History"

    • profile image

      Antonio50S 

      16 hours ago

      It never took 300 years for the Sumerians to turn away from God again, you only have to look at the gods they served, but they also knew their history and where they came from as well, that's also the reason for the exaggerations & myths, mixed in with truths on the Sumerian king list.

      That's the nature of the human heart, we want it all, what better way than to create our OWN gods ? Even Israel made them mistakes with Baal worship. Unfortunately that freedom was and "still is" "just an illusion" which ultimately leads to death, as always.

      Plus a lot of these full-blown civilizations that came after, came from the people who came out of the flood who we now call Egyptians & Sumerians, etc.

      However, God was using Abraham, Isaac etc, ( exclusively ) to form the nation of Israel separate from other nations.

      Whichever way you look at it, nobody can dispute Egypt ever existed. In fact Israel was formed under their captivity over a period of 400 years, while at the same time other groups existed in parallel, such as the Sumerians.

      Whatever contact Abraham had with Egypt, Israel was formed under their captivity, and Moses was used lead them out, while God destroyed all the Egyptian army under the Red Sea. Pharoah may have been defiant about NOT letting Israel go, but God made sure he stayed defiant so he could destroy all his armies for abusing the Israelites, and to show Egypt someone higher was, and "still is in charge" A number of these ancient kings found that out the hard way.

      It all makes perfect sense to me and to many others as well, but you also have to "search" for it. It's a fact, we appreciate things more when we work for them, but "never" take for granted what's given us either, because one day the waters may dry up to the point of no return.

    • HeadlyvonNoggin profile imageAUTHOR

      Jeremy Christian 

      20 hours ago from Texas

      Abraham was born just under 2000 years after Adam was created, or just over 300 years after the flood.

      At the flood the world's population was reduced to Noah, his three sons, and their wives. 8 people, or 4 mating pairs total.

      Abraham's father was from the Sumerian city of Ur and Abraham had dealings with an Egyptian pharaoh.

      So in 300 years 4 mating pairs populated the earth enough for there to be at least two full-blown civilizations? Complete with kingdoms and pharaohs?

      It just doesn't work. The more you look at it the more it falls apart.

      This has nothing to do with questioning God. Only how people interpret the stories of the bible.

    • profile image

      Antonio50S 

      22 hours ago

      Jeremy. Though the question you asked sounds logical, there's a difference between Faith & Trust.

      10 generations is a Huge amount if we take into account people lived up to 930 years.

      And in "each" generation, "They CONTINUED to have other sons and daughters" AS WELL.

      But just focusing on Adam alone, how many children do you think he could have had during his own long life span ? Let alone his childen and grandchildren etc who also continued to have "other sons and daughters" and so on, multiplying each time. 1600 years is a very long time considerding their life spans.

      Despite how far they may have spread, or why the flood ? that's really besides the point, It's the reasons behind why it happened in the first place, and they wasn't right there in that valley either, they did spread out, and it was easier to do so as well in Pre-Flood genesis.

      The question you asked " Why flood the whole Earth" ? The question is "Why Not" ? Why question God when he could use any means to carry out his will ? Plus the flood never destroyed the earth itself, but only the people in it and what they were doing prior to that flood.

      Another question to consider ? Since the time of the "Sumerian King" list was recorded on tablet, till the birth of Jesus, how many world Empires existed ? Quite a few. The ancient Aztecs alone used to sacrifice 200,000 people every year to their Deities. Where did all these people come from ? Another question, where did this idea of sacrificing come from in the first place ?

      Whatever "inconsistencies" people "May Think" existed during the genesis period, there are far more that can NEVER be explained without the genesis account.

    • HeadlyvonNoggin profile imageAUTHOR

      Jeremy Christian 

      34 hours ago from Texas

      Antonio50S,

      Every layer of strata was top soil at one point. The building of layers of Earth is consistent enough that the layers can be used to determine how old something found in that layer is. Carbon dating is one method of determing ages. This is another.

      Think about it like this. Why flood the whole Earth? God had just created Adam 10 generations prior. Just how far out could his descendants have really spread in that time? Why flood the entire planet if all the people were right there in that valley?

      It doesn't make sense for the flood to be global. No matter how you look at it.

    • profile image

      Antonio50S 

      40 hours ago

      Ok Jeremy. I understand what your saying, but when i said "It's good to be able to interepret evidence or lack of for ourselves" don't mean that some things are open to interpretation in the first place.

      Regarding the fallible human interpretation of the bible, that applies to ALL human beings alike, including objectors to a worldwide flood.

      ANYONE who claims to have come up with the same conlusions as yourself ? Well, i would like to know how they managed that when local floods hardly disprove a worldwide deluge.

      When Noah warned the people of a flood destruction, everybody laughed at him because they never seen rain before, Untill it started to rain. By then it was to late. ( Mathew 24:37-39 ) is another warning, but not of a flood.

      The Ark came to rest on "Mount Ararat"

      The significance of that is, we know for certain that mount Ararat is at least 4000 years old, and many other geological formations and mountains haven't changed that much during this time period.

      Let's just say Mount Everest is rising by "two & half" inches a year, that's probably around 800 feet in a 4000 year period, that's not a lot of change, therefore any silt deposits would only have been temporary Top Soil.

      The way you described finding silt deposits in layers of Strata is nor even an interepretation, maybe a theory at best. But you can apply this to the cambrian period because millions of years past in-between stages.

      In just a 4000 year period, you won't get an even silt deposit around the Globe, because it mostly would have been Top Soil.

    • HeadlyvonNoggin profile imageAUTHOR

      Jeremy Christian 

      45 hours ago from Texas

      Antonio50S,

      This isn't about whether or not we believe the bible, but whether or not we believe a fallible human interpretation of the bible. The flood being global is just an interpretation. The bible (original Hebrew) can be read either way without conflict. It's only the English translation that makes it sound global because the people doing the translating were assuming a global flood too.

      The rest of the biblical story is actually inconsistent with the global flood scenario. Example, the Nephilim. They are mentioned as being in the world before the flood in Genesis 6. Then, in Numbers 13, the Israelites report seeing descendants of the Nephilim in Hebron.

      This would be impossible if the flood were global.

      A global flood is just an inaccurate interpretation. Recognizing that does not mean you doubt the bible or God's word.

    • profile image

      Antonio50S 

      2 days ago

      Sorry Jeremy. Maybe its just me, but still ( Cannot picture the scene ) Any silt deposit would have been "Top Soil" and for that would have disappeared over time as well.

      Peoples interpretations and claims of what they consider factual are actually just opinions & unsubstantiated claims that cannot be proved.

      With all the Biblical discoveries in museums throughout the world, NONE have disproved the bible yet. To question this one based on the apparent lack of silt is really just approaching the subject based on disbelief to begin with.

      The claim you made ( there'd be a layer of silt deposit ) is not something that can be proved, but rather just an ASSUMPTION of what we might expect to find ? and the supposed lack of silt evidence in this case CANNOT be taken as proof that the biblical account of the flood is wrong either.

      Unfortunately Jeremy, no matter what anyone says, this one boils down to Faith & Trust in the biblical account, and not peoples unsubstantiated claims and OPINIONS which are based on "unbelief" to begin with. ( Which discredits the rest of the bible as well )

      Plus if the biblical interpretation of a worldwide flood is wrong, then so is all the rest of the bible, including the New Testament with its references to that ( Worldwide ) flood.

      It's good to be able to interepret evidence or lack of for ourselves, and not be swayed by other peoples opinions, because at the end of the day, that's just what they are.

      I also know your understanding of the "Wife-sister narative" including the spies who "THOUGHT" they seen the Nephilim, and other interepretations of yours are wrong as well. No disrespect intended Jeremy, but all this discredits your own reasonings & the way you look at things.

    • profile image

      Antonio50S 

      2 days ago

      You know Jeremy. You may even be right on some details ? and the way you Incorporate them into your own beliefs without being an atheist may be a sign of deeper faith than first appears.

      Plus a little surprised on your understanding of the "Word" ( Logos, Greek ). Even a lot of professed christians either don't know what the "Word" is, or they dispute it's interpretation.

    • profile image

      Antonio50S 

      2 days ago

      The way you explained it sounds feasible and simple ( "Untill" you try and picture the scene ) "some things just don't work like that in real life"

      "Plus" The age of artifacts are determined by C14 carbon dating, not layers of strata. Archaeologist should be aware of this as well.

      And maybe there is a layer of silt deposit across the Globe, but science and archaeologist are not there to support a biblical flood, therefore would be dismissed and "overlooked" ?

      Motives, intentions and personal beliefs come into it as well which determine how evidence is interpreted. Faulty reasonings of the heart can lead to false conclusions.

    • HeadlyvonNoggin profile imageAUTHOR

      Jeremy Christian 

      2 days ago from Texas

      Archaeologists determine the age of artifacts by the layer of strata they're in. If there were at a single point a flood that covered every continent, there'd be a layer of silt deposit that could be used to pinpoint a specific time consistent across the globe.

    • HeadlyvonNoggin profile imageAUTHOR

      Jeremy Christian 

      2 days ago from Texas

      Even if all the continents were covered for a few days, there'd still be a consistent silt deposit layer.

    • profile image

      Antonio50S 

      2 days ago

      I understand what you're saying, but you need to have that silt there in the first place. Something you don't get evenly on every continent due to various geological formations. The thicknesses of these silts vary according to continents. In rock formations for example you would have less silt deposits.

      I don't think geology is as simple as that.

    • profile image

      Antonio50S 

      2 days ago

      A question we may ask a lot of, where did all the water go ? The answer is "in the Ocean basins" which covers over 70% of earths surface. And with all that water pressure you get a shift in tectonic plates as well. It took a few months for that water to recede, not the kind of details associated with folklore.

    • HeadlyvonNoggin profile imageAUTHOR

      Jeremy Christian 

      2 days ago from Texas

      If there were ever a point in Earth's history when the entire surface of the Earth was submerged there'd be irrefutable evidence in the form of a silt deposit on every continent in the same layer of strata.

      There is not.

    • profile image

      Antonio50S 

      2 days ago

      Not sure how anyone could come to the conclusion that a Global flood was really more of a local event ? Especially with ( so many ) objections to it. ?

      Just a few here.

      ( 1 ) Even if the floods were local, why would that rule out a worldwide flood ??????????

      ( 2 ) This localized flood theory has been around for decades, long before any apparent evidence to the contrary. Therefore difficult to see how anyone could arrive at this conlusion. Knowing this, any personal conclusion would have to be biased.

      ( 3 ) How do we know the silt deposits from these localized floods never came as a result of a worldwide flood ?

      ( 4 ) These regions in the middle east are above see level anyway, which would support a Global flood. Even in Pre-flood genesis in the book of genesis itself there were rivers around these rigions. "One of the great Rivers" being the "Tigris" river was likely one of them.

      ( 5 ) Some parts of the Oceans in the world are deeper than the highest mountains, plus one half of our planet is completely covered in water. And if we were to look at the sphere of our planet and the water covering it, "29,000 ft" Say for the highest mountain is not a lot really.

      ( 6 ) All the flood legends worldwide suppord a Global flood, not a localized one. WHY ?

      ( 7 ) This one's interesting. ( Psalms 104:6-9 ) 7 "But at your rebuke the waters fled" 9 "You set a boundary they cannot cross; never again will they cover the earth"

      Anyone who truly knows the reality of God's existence won't have any trouble believing God could actually set these boudaries in the first place.

      And if we go back to that Pre-flood genesis, i don't see where these "others" even fit in with all this ? Or even after the flood for that ?

    • HeadlyvonNoggin profile imageAUTHOR

      Jeremy Christian 

      6 days ago from Texas

      Jesus Freak 57,

      In my view all civilizations share the same local history. The descendants of Noah's sons were all dispersed at Babel, so all share the same memories of the same local flood.

    • profile image

      Jesus Freak 57 

      6 days ago

      Great article, Keith. Much of my own studying has produced alot of the same conclusions you have drawn. I share your accessment of the global flood being a more local event, however, I'm curious as to how other civilizations also describe their own version of global flooding. Aztecs, Incas, west coast Tlingits, to name a few. How would you explain other civilizations who also have global flooding as a part of their stories?

    • HeadlyvonNoggin profile imageAUTHOR

      Jeremy Christian 

      6 days ago from Texas

      Hi Donna,

      Can you be more specific. If there's something you see that I have wrong I want to know about it.

    • HeadlyvonNoggin profile imageAUTHOR

      Jeremy Christian 

      6 days ago from Texas

      Keith,

      "It is just this simple: from the word of God the earth was formed and the word itself was made flesh"

      If you'll read, this pretty much goes right along with what I'm saying. "From the word of God the earth was formed" is very much in line with my hub about creation, as is "the word itself was made flesh".

      Here I'm wondering if you're reading this to mean "the word" as the bible. It is not.

    • profile image

      Thedecadentone 

      9 days ago

      To future readers, please ignore Keiths hateful attacks. If I didnt know any better, he seems like one of those antichrist trolls who acts crazy online to give people a bad impression of Christians. Some people just need to self validate themselves by attacking others beliefs, which Jesus never did. He attacked only hypocrites who were morally corrupt and subverting the scriptures they claimed to follow for their selfish agendas.

    • profile image

      Donna 

      9 days ago

      I believe you believe what you think but it is incorrect. It is not in order and does not align with what the Word of God says.

    • profile image

      Antonio50S 

      9 days ago

      To Keith.

      Just reading through your comments. Quotes, yours.

      "To believe a lie is not the same as having an open mind" Whatever that meant ?????

      And to Jeremy you said,

      "One truth you do have though...adam was not the first man but the first in the geneology of Jesus Christ"

      That's what this article was about in the first place, ( something i DON'T agree with Jeremy on ) yet you accused me of believing a lie while telling Jeremy he's right that adam wasn't the first human.

      I don't think you even knew what the word geneology meant till i explained what the "Wife-sister narrative" was about.

      Maybe next time, it's yourself you need to examine Keith. If only we could work out the secrets of the heart via mathematics ? I wonder what it would reveal about us ? ( Jeremiah 17:9 )

      Personally, i don't have any issue communicating with people like Jeremy, since i already know what i believe in, but you Keith need to ask yourself why you even visited this site in the first place ?

      Regarding "Truth" itself ? i don't believe that's something that can be hidden for long, but the reasons why people disagree are separate issues altogether. ( Jeremiah 17:9 ) again.

      Only trying to get you to see your own contradictions Keith. It's easier to notice other peoples fault's, calling them all kinds of names than to look at our own faults & behaviours.

      Regarding my comment to brian ? That applies to you as well, "Don't Judge" look at your own behavior & the reasons behind them.

      Peace to you.

    • profile image

      Devanshi Bhanushali 

      10 days ago

      Very nice information

      I liked this information

    • profile image

      Antonio50S 

      11 days ago

      To Keith.

      You carry to much around with you.

      Lighten up the load.

    • profile image

      Keith 

      12 days ago

      Becouse you no nothing of me yet judge my "open mind " to be lesser than anouther you 2 show yourself a hippocrit and your "insight" into the scriptures is a complete betrail of your intensions...what i believe comes from science the book of nature and the book of God are the same and by mathmatics does this TRUTH reviel itsself ...and by mathmatics did God show me his creation... i will not come to this sight again i will erase all conections to it as i will not let it benifit from my traffic you antonio should examine yourself...to believe a lie is not the same as having an open mind...i think theirfor i have proven this man wrong by logic and truth not as you have accused of being closed minded- i have found truths theirfor i judge between truth and lie not as an idle scoffer but as a true teacher of the word. ..what was it you said to brian? About judgement?

    • profile image

      Antonio50S 

      2 weeks ago

      To keith.

      Jeremy holds a number of views which i don't agree with and he knows it.

      I actually think he's more receptive and open to new truth than you. People confident in their own faith and what they believe in don't need to call others fools, or to feel threatened that someone may take away what they have. It's OK to have faults, but ( "NOT OK" ) to live in ignorant of them and point fingers at others as if we're without fault ourselves.

      As Jesus said, "Healthy people don't need a doctor"

      In any case, right now we're living under a period of what is called the ( Grace period ) when that's over, the full penalty is due. Namely "Life or Death" But untill that time, God is holding back his judgement.

      Your Job is to work out your own salvation, that includes living by example.

      You can make as many mistakes as possible, That's OK, but you always have to be honest with yourself about what you see in yourself every day, and make the change.

      And talk of Wisdom. Wise people are always ready to listen and be corrected in humility.

      May peace be with you.

    • profile image

      Keith 

      2 weeks ago

      You are a fool as you say antonio agree with whom you will however to fear the lord is the beginning of wisdom.. and by wisdom does the word prove itself all one need do is look..and to agree with one that obviously holds such a great bias is itself foolishness good luck i hope you find truth but its not here in this mans wisdom

    • profile image

      Antonio50S 

      2 weeks ago

      To Keith.

      ( 1 kings 18 & 19 )

      The people of Samaria could have trusted that God had the power to deliver them out of a Famine situation, but couldn't decide which God to serve ? Baal or Jehovah.

      ( 18:41-46 ) Elijah prays for rain. And it rained.

      ( Chapter 19 ) is interesting. Even Elijah lost his faith because of Jezebel's threat to kill him.

      While Elijah was hiding in a cave, God reassured him of his power by sending a Powerful wind - Shattering the rocks, then causing an Earthquake, then a Fire.

      After Elijah witnessed these things, God asked him "What are you doing here, Elijah?"

      If Elijah can lose his faith out of Fear, why do we think we're any better than him ?

      After all the centuries of God pleading and interceding on behalf of the faithless Israelites, ( Out of choice again ) the "Old Testament" came to it's Grand Finale when Matthew opens up with a record of the geneology of Jesus, son of david, son of Abraham. ( Matthew 1:1 )

      Jesus "never" came to condemn people, but to offer the oppurtunity of Life. ( John 3:17 ) "Again"

      We're all fools keith.

    • profile image

      Antonio50S 

      2 weeks ago

      To Keith.

      ( 2 Kings 6:29 )

      It was OK eating someone else's kids, then hide our own.

      That pretty much sums up human behaviour in desperate times :)

      I wonder what prompted God to have this recorded, other than to show the depravity of man ?

      If every Word and Action in the bible is literally from God, that would make him responsible for a lot of things people choose to do out of "Free-Will"

    • profile image

      Antonio50S 

      2 weeks ago

      To keith.

      I agree with Jeremy.

      AND "NO" I DEFINITELY don't believe every text or Hebrew word literally came from God directly.

      So many people have misread and misunderstood so many gruesom "passages" and "words" from the bible as being ( The very words and desires of God himself )

      Example ( 2 Kings 6:24-29 )

      A situation God predicted would happen when the people rejected God.

      When there was a "famine" in Samaria, the people resorted to eating their own children as God predicted they would.

      V:28 "This woman said to me, Give up your son so that we may eat him today" Which they did as it happened, but they wasn't words that came from God himself.

      You think God was happy with that situation or that the people resorted to eating their own children ? Yet God made sure this situation was recorded in the bible. People do crazy things in desperate times.

      It's in that sense all Scriptures are inspired of God.

    • HeadlyvonNoggin profile imageAUTHOR

      Jeremy Christian 

      2 weeks ago from Texas

      To make my view clear,

      I believe the bible is exactly what it needs to be. It has successfully made the story known to all people the world over.

    • profile image

      Keith 

      2 weeks ago

      It is just this simple: from the word of God the earth was formed and the word itself was made flesh.... not as this man jeremy contends that from the earth came man and from man came the word.. concider

    • profile image

      Keith 

      2 weeks ago

      Now your on the right track antonio these scriptures are according to the genealogy of Jesus theirfor he attacks them as if by "logic" however i must inform you that the hebrew text is the word of God evey letter, word,and phrase. .and by logic can be proved..but not by fools that wont even look -dont let this mans biased opinion take you from the truth..keep up the good work

    • profile image

      Antonio50S 

      2 weeks ago

      You never know Jeremy.

      Maybe they were getting one over on the powerful rulers ? Especially when the rulers found out who Abraham and Isaac were. They became afraid as a result and gave gifts to Abrahan/Isaac.

      Abraham may have thought, ( Let's play these Rulers ) :)

    • profile image

      Antonio50S 

      2 weeks ago

      I also understand what you mean when you say "they are not word directed by God"

      That is true, otherwise it would take away peoples "Free Will" to act as they will, but despite the wilful actions of men and women in the bible, God was working out his plan amongst all of it.

      And it's in that sense, "All Scriptures are inspired of God" ( 2 Timothy 3:16 )

      I think there's hope for you yet Jeremy :) I hope there's hope for me as well :)

    • profile image

      Antonio50S 

      2 weeks ago

      At the end of the day Jeremy, nobody is a master of "anyones" faith or how they understands things, but the botton line for me is where that geneology lead to. ( Mathew 1 ) Jesus.

    • profile image

      Antonio50S 

      2 weeks ago

      The point is nobody was allowed to touch the wives of Abraham and Isaac.

      God prevented that from happening because the Messiah Jesus would come through the lineage of Abraham.

      The geneology of Abraham to Jesus ( Mathew 1 )

      There's no way, no how God was going to allow anyone to touch their wives. To much was at stake. The rest are just details.

      If you reject or dispute these situations ever occurred in the first place ? Then you may as well reject the promises God made to Abraham as well, which would render all of the new testament a lie as well, including the whole gospel message of Jesus, which includes Jesus birth, death, Resurrection ( "Anastasis" Greek ) the whole geneology of Jesus & everything Else associated with him.

      We don't need to use hermeneutics or reinterpret the scriptures. It a simple case of accepting & trusting the "words" we're reading. If we cannot do that ? Then we're better of walking away from it all.

    • HeadlyvonNoggin profile imageAUTHOR

      Jeremy Christian 

      2 weeks ago from Texas

      Antonio,

      I imagine this would be a very popular story. The common man (Abraham/Isaac) getting one over on a powerful ruler. Tell that one again.

      And they did, over and over. Changes to the story as it adapts from teller to teller.

    • HeadlyvonNoggin profile imageAUTHOR

      Jeremy Christian 

      2 weeks ago from Texas

      Keith,

      I do think there was a forbidden fruit. And I do think there was a character playing the role of temptation (the serpent).

      It wasn't the fruit that was significant, or magical in some kind of way. What was significant about it was that God forbade it. To eat that fruit was to act contrary to God's will, unlike anything else in the natural world.

      I do think the stories of the bible are significant because they are accounts of when this God interacted with humanity. But I do not think they are words directly from God. There's no reason to think they are.

    • HeadlyvonNoggin profile imageAUTHOR

      Jeremy Christian 

      2 weeks ago from Texas

      Antonio,

      The first thing that comes to mind is Abimilech. This means the same thing happened to him twice. After the first, he went right back and did it again.

    • profile image

      Antonio50S 

      2 weeks ago

      To Jeremy.

      I did read ( Genesis 12, 20, 26 ) again, and never noticed anything to imply it's the same story told 3 times.

      In fact the opposite.

      G20:11 Abraham, "There is surely no fear of God in this place, and they will kill me because of my wife"

      G13 Abraham, "This is how you can show your love for me: "EVERYWHERE we go, say of me, He is my brother"

      Back in them days, as Abraham himself noticed, the people had no fear of God at all. If they wanted something, they would just take it.

      V13 is interesting. "EVERYWHERE we go, say of me, He is my brother"

      Apart from the 2 times in Abrahams situation that we already know about, I wonder how many other times that situation came up ? apart from the 3 we already know about ???

      Isaacs situation would not have been any different. ( Dealing with the same issues ) Sometimes the beauty that's noticed in strangers is just the fact that they are different ? Isaac was basically dealing with the same situation.

      The story behind this ? God already promised, through the descendants of Abraham & Isaac etc, "All nations will be blessed"

      It soon became apparent that anyone who tried to interfere with Abraham & Isaacs Wives, "knowing the plans of God" had to deal with the very Almighy, Yahweh/Jehovah himself. And they soon found that out.

      The only reasons we know this situation happened 3 times is because of the FEAR of Abraham & Isaac.

      You could say, we are priviledged to even know these details.

      I wish these Critics of the bible would actually take the time to read & understand what's going on behind the scenes instead of following other people's objections.

    • profile image

      Keith 

      2 weeks ago

      Safe? What are you talking about? Is it safe for you to exclude examination of the scriptures as if God wrote it? And what harm is it to the soul to search for truth? You say your not comfortable reading the bible as if God wrote it and this is a great example of your bias and your supposed science and "logic"(a man of science is allways ready to discard his beliefs for the truth) i mean if we truely wish to know if it was God that wrote the bible or not shouldn't we look for ourselfs? And the fact that you wont arnt you the one then that is just believing what your told about the bible? Arnt you then the hippocrit? I mean you still think it was a snake and an apple in the garden dont you? Becouse that is what you were told.... however we men of God who call upon the lord Christ- Jesus is his name live the gospel and are taught by him not what weve heard as you insist. So when we then hear the lies of the serpent we speak becouse we know. And it is he who calls us.. one truth do you have though...adam was not the first man but the first in the genealogy of Jesus Christ theirfor he is called the first man and Jesus the last and eve the mother of all living

    • profile image

      Antonio50S 

      2 weeks ago

      Jeremy. It may seem a little odd in this day and age that such things did happen, but those are the kind of things that happened back then.

      There are similarities in the stories of Abraham/Isaac, but differences as well.

      Why would the differences disprove that this situation actually happened 3 times ?

    • profile image

      Antonio50S 

      2 weeks ago

      Thanks Jeremy, but this thought went through my mind which don't happen to often these days.

      She must have been a nice looking bird for that to happen 3 times ;-)

      It does happen.

    • HeadlyvonNoggin profile imageAUTHOR

      Jeremy Christian 

      2 weeks ago from Texas

      Antonio,

      Recognize that I'm laying out the bigger picture across these articles. I'm not dismissing the bible. I just recognize that the way it's interpreted, the way we were all taught to read it and told what it means, is fallible.

      Modern science has shown us that the traditional interpretations can't be right, but science has not proven the bible wrong. Only that interpretation.

      I'm showing here that with the right interpretation, science and the bible do not conflict.

    • HeadlyvonNoggin profile imageAUTHOR

      Jeremy Christian 

      2 weeks ago from Texas

      Keith,

      Sorry to repeat that same example, but it's a good one. It takes very little explanation. There are others, but they often take more to see. This one doesn't take anymore than just recognizing the duplicated story.

      You say a "wise man" might examine the differences to understand God's message.

      Is that really a safe assumption. To think anything you imagine based on comparing these stories is understanding God intended you to get out of this?

      So, which is it? Did these same events really happen three times to teach lessons? Or is it repeated three times, whether it ever really happened at all, to teach us lessons?

    • profile image

      Antonio50S 

      2 weeks ago

      Ok Jeremy.

      I did read about the "Wife-sister narratives" and "Yes" i was familiar with that, something i never gave a second thought to.

      To me it's about the story behind it, and the way people behave confronted in a situation. FEAR plays a big part in this "Wife-sister narrative"

      I must say Jeremy, you have to approach this subject or narrative in an atheistic manner to notice inconsistencies like that. And talk of inconsistencies, "inconsistencies need not be contradictions" either, especailly when there's things going on behind the scenes, including different cultures and way's of understanding things.

      Quoting what you said, "This, to me at least, is a pretty obvious edditing error"

      The question is ? Is it ? Or are they just standard objection based on atheisic views to begin with ?

      You gave an example of what you consider an inconsistency, but the main story of the bible, adam & eve, why things went wrong in eden, and God's plan of Salvation based on the Gospel of Jesus is missed altogether.

      Just one bit of advice, ( when you look to closely at a painting and scrutinise it close up ) you will miss the bigger picture.

    • profile image

      Keith 

      2 weeks ago

      Again with the gen. 12 20 and 26 just a one trick pony arnt you the scriptures you refer to are complete and from God just becouse they use the same "this is my sister" you then say they were"edited " even though they all clearly give time stamps as to whare they are in time by the location they are in... a wise man then might just then examine the differences betweem them to understand what the message is God is tryinsg to teach us... thank you for putting them together s,o we can examine thempui

      .

      ..

    • profile image

      Antonio50S 

      2 weeks ago

      Ok Jeremy.

      Not to familiar with that, or something i noticed. Give me some time, maybe a couple of days or so, could do with looking that up myself.

    • HeadlyvonNoggin profile imageAUTHOR

      Jeremy Christian 

      2 weeks ago from Texas

      Antonio,

      The best example I can give is Genesis 12, 20 and 26.

      These are commonly known as the "wife-sister narratives". It's the same story told 3 times. First time it's Abraham and a Pharaoh. The second time it's Abraham and Abimilech. The third time it's Isaac and Abimilech.

      What likely happened is this story was very popular. Over the ages the protagonist and antagonist was changed to more contemporary names so it's more relatable to the audience.

      All 3 versions were found, and rather than just choosing 1, all 3 were edited in within the Abraham/Isaac stories.

      This, to me at least, is a pretty obvious editing error.

    • profile image

      Antonio50S 

      2 weeks ago

      Trying to answer them questions is difficult if we don't understand the concept of Sin or the Transgressions of God.

      The worst kind of sickness we can have is a "Spiritual Sickness" a sickness we're not even aware of.

      God wasn't trying to control people's actions since they were free moral agents with a "Free Will" but there were consequences for their actions nontheless.

      A lot of what first went wrong with Adam & Eve, Cain & Abel using that "Free Will" in the wrong way, the results are clearly seen as we continue reading in Genesis. The problem is our thinking & the world we have become accustomed to living in. ( "Basically, the whole history of Man is filled with violence and bloodshed" ) Discoveries in museums throughout the world support that as well.

      Not sure how you can say the story isn't consistent with Gods word ? One reason why people reject the bible is because of the things that happened in the O/T using that "Free Will" then we turn round and blame God in the end as well, or outright reject his existence.

      God also had a nation or capital which represented his ruleship on earth during that time, "being Israel" but the invitation to be involved in it was also open to other nations to join as well till the arrival of the messiah.

      While all this was going on, God's ultimate plan was in fulfilling the first prophecy made in ( Genesis 3:15 ) being that the mesiah, Jesus himself would be born through the lineage of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, through Israel, down through the ages till the birth of Jesus.

      What's inconsistent about that ? and where's the evolutionary progress in man being able to live together in peace ? Apart from God's own Law's & the message of Jesus ?

    • profile image

      Antonio50S 

      2 weeks ago

      Can you give an example of what you consider inconsistent of the story told ?

      Or what the story is ?

    • HeadlyvonNoggin profile imageAUTHOR

      Jeremy Christian 

      2 weeks ago from Texas

      The basic point being that the idea that the Bible as God's infallible word isn't consistent with the story that's told.

    • HeadlyvonNoggin profile imageAUTHOR

      Jeremy Christian 

      2 weeks ago from Texas

      Antonio,

      The OT depicts God interacting with the Israelites, humans with free will, and shows that He was unable to control their actions.

      So how could God, in the same conditions, accurately author a book through the same means?

    • profile image

      Antonio50S 

      2 weeks ago

      To Jeremy, Just quoting what you said,

      ( Men do as they will. So man's impressions are going to be all over it )

      "That is true of course" That's what we call "FREE WILL" but ( God's impressions are all over the Bible as well ) using mans "Free Will" to communicate with us.

      Assuming we believe in a God, what other way would God use to communicate with man using that very "Free Will" of ours ?

      That's not a trick question, so you don't need to answer it, but to be fair, it's the other way round. On the very subject of "Evolution" ( Everything you and I have been told about it ) is not even fallible opinions, but rather outright "Lies & Deception"

      ( Dr. David Berlinski Refutes Evolution in under 5 Minuites ) You Tube.

    • HeadlyvonNoggin profile imageAUTHOR

      Jeremy Christian 

      2 weeks ago from Texas

      So how did you learn the truth? What's different about you that you were blessed with the real truth and I wasn't?

    • profile image

      Keith 

      2 weeks ago

      Bla bla bla its not me thats got you all wrong but yourself fooling yourself your logic is a joke...it supposes from the start that the bible is a collection of stories and you seek evidence to support your conclusion.. this is not logic but mental masterbation and truth of the origins of the bible you are unwilling to accept ... and no the God of the bible and the God of the quran are not the same and the bible and quran say exactly the opposite the latter uses many of the same people but completely changes the truth to lie ie: Jesus just a proffit not the son and on and on and on and you the olny scripture you are interested in all have to do with the lord christ and his genealogy... you are a tool a mouthpiece of the quran wether you know it or not your logic and your source information comes from them

    • HeadlyvonNoggin profile imageAUTHOR

      Jeremy Christian 

      2 weeks ago from Texas

      Of course. And you believe in your opinion.

      How do you know what you believe is true and what I believe is not?

    • HeadlyvonNoggin profile imageAUTHOR

      Jeremy Christian 

      2 weeks ago from Texas

      Keith,

      You have me all wrong. I'm just not comfortable treating the bible as if it's straight from God's lips to our ears. There's a lot of finger prints all over it.

      The authors were men. The people who took all the different pieces, translated them, and bound them into a book were all men.

      God doesn't control men like puppets. Men do as they will. So man's impressions are going to be all over it.

      I'm just using the brain God gave me to apply some sense and logic to it all.

      Everything you and I have been told about God and the bible is fallible opinion that generations before us didn't know for sure either. And they knew way less than we know now.

      You and I live in this modern age where we have a lot more information than was available to the fathers of the churches in the days when they were studying the bible.

      Re: Atheist/Quran

      You do realize the first books of the Quran and the bible are the same books, right? They both start with God creating Adam and Eve in the garden. Yes, they differ towards then end there, but the God of the OT and the God of the Quran are the same God. Some believe Jesus. Some believe Muhammad. But all believe in the same God.

      Therefore, followers of the Quran are not atheists. They believe in God. Whether they're Christian or not.

    • profile image

      Keith 

      2 weeks ago

      So what of it? You believe in you and your opinion

    • profile image

      Keith 

      2 weeks ago

      answer this Jesus Christ son of God or profit? And yes you are an atheist becouse you believe that the bible is just a bunch of stories writen by men about God. .you believe in you and your opinion you seek to change the bible becouse you say its ben "edited by men you exclude the 5th chapter Genisis and all other books you dont agree with in fact you subscribe to the belief that "NEW INFORMATION" has been revieled that proves the bible has many things that are untrue and need to be changed. ..these are the marks of an atheist following the quran

    • HeadlyvonNoggin profile imageAUTHOR

      Jeremy Christian 

      2 weeks ago from Texas

      I am Jeremy and I am the one that created and maintain this article.

      Again I ask, if I'm an atheist, how can I also be a follower of the quran?

    • HeadlyvonNoggin profile imageAUTHOR

      Jeremy Christian 

      2 weeks ago from Texas

      Keith,

      Did you just say I'm an atheist because I believe the bible is just a bunch of stories written by men, then accuse me of being a follower of the quran?

      Wouldn't I believe the same of the quran? If I were an atheist, how could I also be a follower of the quran?

    • profile image

      Keith 

      2 weeks ago

      Once again this is an article created and maintained by the followers of the quran the olny thing christian about jeremy is his last name t

    • profile image

      Keith 

      2 weeks ago

      To Antonio. ...brian is correct this man jeremy is an atheist not becouse of his views on adam but becouse he believes the bible is just a bunch of stories writen by men about God... this is a websight built and mantained by the followers of the quran. ..plain and simple dont fall into this trap the olny thing christian about jeremy is his last name ....that he made up for the pourpose of this article to fool men seeking the truth ...

    • profile image

      B E O W U L F 

      2 weeks ago

      The name Adam means man. In Genesis 1 when it says God created man, it literally says, God created Adam. It is the same event.

      Furthermore, Eve is the "mother of all living", not some living, or most living, but all living.

      As to the extent of the flood, we are told that the waters covered the mountains: "The waters rose and increased greatly on the earth, and the ark floated on the surface of the water. They rose greatly on the earth, and *all the high mountains under the entire heavens were covered.* The waters rose and *covered the mountains to a depth of more than fifteen cubits*."

      15 cubits is about 23 feet.

      Furthermore, we are told that the Ark came to rest on the Mountains of Ararat in the seventh month of the flood. Greater Ararat is 16,854 ft high, whilst Little Ararat is 12,782 ft high, and it was not until the 10th month that the "the tops of the mountains were seen."

      So we know from these verses that the flood waters were at least 16,877 feet high, which would cover the vast majority of land, globally. At which point, we might as well trust God that it really was a global flood, that covered all mountains under the entire heavens.

      Science is slow, don't worry, it will catch up with the truth some day. ;)

    • profile image

      Antonio50S 

      3 weeks ago

      To Brian.

      Just read your comment.

      ( NEVER ) judge people, or how they understant things in their own minds.

      I did struggle myself "As Well" at one point with faith and religion, but will tell you, ( My real struggle ) came as a result of "self-righteous religious judgemetal critics" constantly talking in Rhetoric who really had issues of "THEIR OWN" deep down.

      Brian.You think your're better than Jeremy just because you have faith ?

      Think again.

      Quote from Jesus. ( Mathew 7:2 ) "For in the SAME way as you judge others, you will be judged" in return.

      Who do you think is doing the Judging here ? God or People ?

      Jesus was addressing Believers, Not Unbelievers.

    • HeadlyvonNoggin profile imageAUTHOR

      Jeremy Christian 

      3 weeks ago from Texas

      You think I'm an atheist?

    • profile image

      Brian 

      3 weeks ago

      What a joke. All this effort in vain.

      Nothing more pathetic than a atheist trying to interpret scriptures!!!

    • profile image

      Antonio50S 

      4 weeks ago

      Thats what i meant when i said ( Unless ) they are relating the same events. They can only do that if they share the same history as you mentioned.

      In the past, a number of biblical commentators used to use the term "Borrowed" to discredit biblical accounts like the flood.

      but as you say, "They're not borrowed"

    • HeadlyvonNoggin profile imageAUTHOR

      Jeremy Christian 

      4 weeks ago from Texas

      Antonio,

      They're not borrowed. They both share the same history because they existed at the same time in the same place.

    • profile image

      Antonio50S 

      4 weeks ago

      Regarding that "ape to man" moment ? None of that makes any sense either.

      We cannot determine Evolution taking place based on the "Size or varying shapes" of a Skull, since they are all complete living life forms.

      That "Free Will" is not an "ape to man" moment. Not something that would have developed via evolution, but rather something that was "GIVEN US"

      Thats what sets us apart as being different from the animal world. Part of the "Spirituality" within man that makes us want to Explore, Search, ask the deep questions, "Whats the ultimate MEANING to life" but when we don't approach it based on faith and trust in the Almighty, we end up with our own answers to these questions, conflicting with each other.

    • profile image

      Antonio50S 

      4 weeks ago

      Though i understand the comment ( All text is divine ) my understanding is, only as far as being created in the "Image" of God, but not Divine in the literal sense, plus many other Text that came after outright contradict whats written in the bible itself.

      Regarding "Or you might expect to see their influence reflected in the mythology" ?

      That don't make a lot of sense. Why would all these independent civilizations borrow "mythological" Ideas from each other ? ( Unless ) they are relating the same events, like the biblical flood ?

      If thats the understanding that "All text is divine" ? They don't actually support that "All text are divine in themselves"

    • profile image

      Antonio50S 

      4 weeks ago

      To Donny.

      I understand everything you meant, especially ( All text is divine ) But regarding the "Animal Species & Free Will" ? I haven't seen any of them praying to God yet :) or asking the Meaning & Origin to Life.

      Maybe we're higher up the ladder than we think :)

    • profile image

      Violet 

      4 weeks ago

      @Jeanrae

      You quote 2 Timothy verse 13 "For Adam was first formed, then Eve. You need to read the verse before it and after it for the understanding.Before that it says a woman shouldnt teach, should be silence and not have authority over the man, and its because man was created first. The formation of Adam and Eve being made from adam was brough up as an example/reminder

    • profile image

      Violet 

      4 weeks ago

      I believe there were already men and women on the earth before Adam and Eve. Genesis chapter 1 verse 26-28 God speaks of making man in his image and told them to be fruitful and multiply. The creation of Adam isnt until the 2nd chapter. Adam was a more specific human, start of a lineage of people, his formation was more specific for a reason and also states that man became a living soul. God planted a garden and used the man he just created from the ground and it specifically states that God put him there to "dress it and to keep it" He then made Eve as a help meet for him. In my opinion, people were already there, but God is illustrating the soulful human, the beginning of the lineage that is referred to throughout the entire bible and it is the beginning of the law and who it started with.

    • profile image

      Apeman 

      5 weeks ago

      Interesting theory, however by Adam not being the first man threatens the whole of Christianity in my opinion.

      Allow me to explain in 5 words, Snake - Apple - Eve - Adam - Sin.

      All that came through Eve = born in sin.

      Adam and Eve sinned and were banished from the garden of Eden.

      The Bible refers to God as being fair, so why would he punish any other human for not eating from the tree? Unless all of them did at the same time, but once again only Adam and Eve are mentioned...

      And if other people existed along with Adam and Eve this would surely mean that there would be "pure" lineages... people free from sin and thus there would be no need for a savior.

      Can you see where I am going with this?

      Evolution is the biggest lie ever, its a pity for some that would take billions of years to process. Nice try Mr. Evolutionist, but I'm not buying your crap!

    • profile image

      Antonio50S 

      6 weeks ago

      Donny,

      You got me thinking now, especially on that "Free-Will" ape to man moment.

      Something I've been thinking "even more" about lately, something we've all been taking for granted for to long.

      And know exactly what you mean by ( ALL text is divine ) and where you're coming from on that.

      Going to be a little busy over the next week or so, but that will give me time to think more of what you said.

    • profile image

      Donny5 

      6 weeks ago

      @Antonio

      That is precisely what I am suggesting, just as the author says

      "Or you might expect to see their influence reflected in the mythology written by these ancient civilizations, like what can be seen in the Sumerian, Akkadian, Babylonian, Greek, and Roman stories: "

      I have been independently studying this idea for some time now! My greatest hurdle in considering the truth available in these legends has always been that [Adam was formed from dust by supernatural manifestation] and several texts suggest that there may be more to the story than how we presently interpret it. I tried to find other ways to interpret it, but since I am so prone to dismissing scientific evolution, I had never considered that granting Free Will could be the 'ape to man' moment (gift of fire) of a Natural Process evolutionary creation of all things.

      (Side note, the Egyptians have a god named Atum - the first of all the gods, self formed from a mound of dirt)

      In response to your closing comment "Not inspired by God"

      -I certainly agree that these myths are not biblical canon simply because they tend to proclaim glory to God, but I also seem to believe that ALL text is divine and can hold and reveal secrets of God's infinite wisdom if he chooses to grant it. This is why i study the Psalms and Proverbs in their original language to prepare myself before researching these potentially evil ideas generated by the spirit of Flesh or Slander.

      Gotta run again its mothers day!

    • profile image

      Antonio50S 

      6 weeks ago

      Unity in diversity don't mean we necessarily agree on things, it just means there's higher and better ways to disagree in peace.

      There are many ancient text as you say, the "Sumerian King List" is one of them. It supports the biblical Genesis account, but we also know ( It wasn't inspired by God )

      The early bible writers knew what books or writings were to be included or excluded from what we now call the bible. They had the "holy spirit" to guild them in that process, but some of these other ancient text ? Regardless of whether some of what they say agrees with the bible or not ? They was not inspired by God, and for that wasn't included in the bible canon.

      Some things can be "considered" though. ( Phillipian 4:8 )

      Example V8 "WHATEVER" is "true" "noble" "right" "pure" or "admirable" "think about such things" meaning they can be "considered" but they are not directly inspired by God.

    • profile image

      Donny5 

      6 weeks ago

      Yes! That is exactly what i am saying. There are all kinds of ancient texts which seem to agree with several points made by the author of this piece.

      I have never allowed myself to doubt the instantanious conception ("Let Us Create Man"), formation (from dust), and activation (via breath) of Adam (human-kind), but this perspective presented is seriously a viable theory for the unification of proper scientific evolution and the Genesis Account.

      Another text which supports the article is Theogenes - claiming that women were created just after man was given fire (fire could be the free will)

      Sorry to cut short. Gotta go

    • profile image

      Antonio50S 

      6 weeks ago

      To Donny.

      If you don't mind me saying ? Learn to accept yourself for who you are. People happy in themselves don't try to change others.

      It's possible to have unity in diversity without the conformity.

    • profile image

      Donny5 

      6 weeks ago

      I simply came here to discuss something with you, if you are unwilling to open and examine my source then I'm at a loss. You cannot argue that there is literally no more inspired material in the history of the world outside of the Bible. The Bible contains ALL that is necessary to salvation and some clues to aid in understanding the heart and wisdom of God. There are several things that The Almighty Creator has done which you do not understand. "The glory of God is to conceal things, and the glory of kings is to seek things out" -Proverbs of Solomon

    • profile image

      Antonio50S 

      6 weeks ago

      To Donny5. P.S.

      Quoting what you said,

      "To be blunt, there is no way of knowing whether this is or is not some version of the ancient book referred to by Joshual and Samuel"

      If your not to sure yourself whether it's original or not, then why should it be taken seriously ? but saying that, "some of the information in that book could be true as well, in the fact that it make's sense" but the book of "Jasher" in "Joshual" was ( NEVER inspired by God to begin with ) but just reference books written by people of the bible. So why would ( "Our infinite GodKing" In your words ) Explain passages from Genesis which he never thought important to include in the bible itself ?

      Regarding the "Sumerian King list" nobody can dispute the authenticy of that. It's a 4000 year old document/tablet discovered in the 1900s, located in a museum in UK.

      You cannot compare this spurious "book of Jasher" with tangible evidence.

    • profile image

      Donny5 

      6 weeks ago

      Here is some information about the resource you referenced

      -

      The Book of Jasher, also called Pseudo-Jasher, is an 18th-century literary forgery by Jacob Ilive.

      Published in November 1751, the title page of the book says: "translated into English by Flaccus Albinus Alcuinus, of Britain, Abbot of Canterbury, who went on a pilgrimage into the Holy Land and Persia, where he discovered this volume in the city of Gazna." The book claims to be written by Jasher, son of Caleb,

      -

      This is not the same resource i mentioned and is indeed total nonsense.

      You seem to have not actually read the link you sent me, I am speaking of a potentially valuable material. I was hoping to get some sensible feedback about its relevence to your interesting theories.

      https://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/apo/jasher/index....

    • profile image

      Antonio50S 

      6 weeks ago

      That's my understanding of it as well Jeremy.

      The 18th century that claimed to be it, was found to be a forgery.

    • HeadlyvonNoggin profile imageAUTHOR

      Jeremy Christian 

      6 weeks ago from Texas

      The book of Jasher referenced in Joshua and Samuel has never been found. There was a version in the 18th century that claimed to be it, but it was found to be a literary forgery.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Jasher_(bibl...

    • profile image

      Donny5 

      6 weeks ago

      Are you explaining this to me, Or are you asking for explanation?

      The Book of The Upright (Sepher Hayasher) that I am referring to is -

      The BOOK OF JASHER

      REFERRED TO IN JOSHUA AND SECOND SAMUEL

      Faithfully translated (1840)

      FROM THE ORIGINAL HEBREW INTO ENGLISH

      SALT LAKE CITY:

      PUBLISHED BY J.H. PARRY & COMPANY

      1887

      -

      If you have read it in part or in whole then please explain why you disbelieve its value as a historical document.

      I have read its account up through the life of Abraham, and have found nothing but beautiful, God revealed truth, and Holy natural pattern. It explains several comments from Genesis in such a beautiful way that only our infinite GodKing could have come up with it. I fully believe that this is not an invented book. I also believe it contains hidden divine truth and knowlege.

      2 Timothy 3:16 does NOT say

      "All that is inspired by God is Scripture"

      (The Bible is the Square, but there may still be Rectangles out there among the infinite Quadralaterals)

      I would never say that it belongs in the Bible (I don't believe anyone in this thread is suggesting that the Sumarian Kings List should be included in the Bible), and it is not divinely protected from utter destruction or corruption, as the Bible is. I am always wary of deciet and misinformation in my research and went through a lot of preperation before endeavoring to read the PDF i found with any reverence. To be blunt, there is no way of knowing whether this is or is not some version of the ancient book referred to by Joshua and Samuel.

      Now that I have defended my reference to this "awesome" resource I will mention another interesting thing it declares.

      @Antonio50S-

      You said "interesting how they all died after the flood". The Sepher Hayasher makes very careful mention that all of the righteous on earth were allowed to die before God began the destruction of the Earth. Lamech, father of Noah, was not so righteous as his fathers, and he died at a young age, so that all righteous except Methusela and Noah (who built the ark) were dead and would not be greived to hear of the destruction God had sentenced to all of their friends and relatives and all of the Earth.

      Its very beautiful how it all falls into order just in time

    • profile image

      Antonio50S 

      6 weeks ago

      About ( Genesis 4 )

      I did wonder about verses 23-24 which implies Lamech killed Cain ? but It's interesting how they all died after the flood. I think God had very good reasons for including Cains final fate, if not just to let eveyone know the outcome of using that "Free-Will" in a wrong way.

      Also was reading up on that "mark"

      It appears that the "mark" was nothing other than God's own word itself ? warning others and making everyone aware "these are the words of the Almighty" and the consequences for killing Cain.

      Those other "Current" books on "The book of Jasher" ? Though not original, the authors no doubt tried to read between the lines of what "might have happened" ?

      Through out the ages many books have been written, some part of the biblical canon, others not. But these books like the book of Jasher, wasn't included in the bible itself.

      ( 2 Timothy 3:16 NLT ) " All Sciptures is inspired by God" Via his spirit.

      That would mean God is the one who was directing and dictating the writings of the bible, using people down through the ages to write Scrolls which eventually became the bible. ( Based on faith as well )

    • profile image

      Antonio50S 

      7 weeks ago

      That book of "Jasher" needs explaining. There are "current" books written by that name, but the "originals" never survived the destruction of Judah along with the jewish libraries.

      They were just used as reference books back in the days of Israel, with "additional information to support accounts written in the bible, but they never survived the few times Judah was destroyed.

    • profile image

      Maurice Masspuppy 

      7 weeks ago

      Just one Question I haven't figure out until now, and I hope some can answer me with supporting details and not just Theories is that: "Was it GOD created Men, or was it Men who created GOD?"

    • profile image

      Donny5 

      7 weeks ago

      Wow, cool to see this conversation is current.

      If you have read the Book of Jasher, it goes into awesome detail about the pre flood generations.

      Genesis 4 mentions a decendent named Lamech who has a son named Tubal-Cain. It then gives a seemingly random lement of Lamech to his wives involving the vengence of Cain.

      The Book of Jasher (meaning Upright) goes into detail of the account, saying that Lamech accidentally killed Cain while hunting with his son Tubal-Cain, then proceeded to accidentally kill his son because of his surprise and dismay when he realizes he has murdered his patriarch grandfather.

      This sheds some light on his comment "if Cains vengence is sevenfold, then Lamech's is seventy seven fold"

      He was cursed for accidentally killing Cain and punished immediatly by losing his own son. Then his wives shunned him (as described in the Book of Jasher) and he says the punishment of losing his son is enough, so he is pleading with them to return to him for comfort (which they do, but bear no more children)

      Sorry for runons and mispelling, I seldom write, this is somewhat off topic but I'm excited to join this philosophical conversation.

      Final note on this point. If the account from the Book of Jasher is true, it supports your theory in that Cain lived for hundreds of years and was protected through Gods mark from "whoever finds me..."(Genesis 4:14) but this line of Adam which is Capable of Free-will can circumnavigate the protective mark and he is still killed by the hand of Man as he deserved

    • profile image

      Antonio50S 

      7 weeks ago

      About the "Mark" & "Punishment"

      You are right. His family was capable of behaving contrary to God's will.

      That can also be a "good thing" as well in showing the ( Free Will ) of man. that's also what made the "Garden so special" to begin with. No matter what Cain accomplished in Nod, he did become a wanderer by losing that "one to one" relationship with God.

      The Psalmist, likely King David realised the reality of this truth when he said,

      "Better is one day in your courts than a thousand elsewhere" ( Psalms 84:10 )

      Cain would have realised this as well when he said "My punishment is more than I can bear" G4:13 and that he would be ( "Hidden from Gods presence" ) G4:14.

      No doubt Cain would have had good days as well in Nod, but he would never have been the same again because he knew what it was like to be in the very presence of God, but God did warn him beforehand, "Sin is Crouching at your door" and that he needed to Master it.

      About the "mark" itself, nobody knows exactly what the mark was ? Or that it would even prevent Cain from being Killed ? But to "Suffer vengeance seven times over" G4:15 would have been a good deterrent for anyone thinking of killing Cain.

      Banishment from thr garden was "punishment" enough for Cain, but the "mark" whatever it was ? Was a deterrent.

    • HeadlyvonNoggin profile imageAUTHOR

      Jeremy Christian 

      7 weeks ago from Texas

      Antonio,

      The punishment was banishment from the garden. The mark was specifically said to have been for protection.

      You say he had nothing but hard times, but did he? It also says that he'll be a "restless wonderer", but then immediately after says he "settled". So it would seem his fate did not exactly turn out as predicted.

      As far as his family members being the concern, that doesn't add up to me either. This family has shown capable of behaving contrary to God's will, so how is a mark supposed to assure his safety?

    • profile image

      Antonio50S 

      7 weeks ago

      Just quoting what you said on the other Hub about Cain.

      "It's possible that Cains concern could simply be fear of the unknown, except that in God's reply He validates Cain's concern as legitimate by marking him to protect him"

      That mark was a protection, but also a punishment at the same time. And though he settled in the land of Nod, he Never really had an easy life like he did prior to the killing of his brother. Everything he did after that was ( Hard Work )

      Regardless of what family members he might have had till that point, it appears he was afraid of possible future repercussions. Plus when God said ( NOT SO ) it's also possible God was "acknowleging his fears" "as well as validating them" due to the possibily of them repercussions.

    • profile image

      Antonio50S 

      7 weeks ago

      ( That's very interesting Jeremy, wasn't aware of that )

      I was just watching something about all the possible reasons why the Sumerians would list long lives prior to the flood.

      If what you're saying is correct, which I'm sure it is, that ( Makes more Sense ) and would also explain them astronomical reigns.

    • HeadlyvonNoggin profile imageAUTHOR

      Jeremy Christian 

      7 weeks ago from Texas

      Antonio,

      An interesting note about the astronomical reigns given in the Sumerian King's List (ex. 36,000, 28,800, 108,000, etc).

      If you'll notice, every number it gives is divisible by 6. This is because the Sumerians used a numbering system that is base-60. Hebrews used base-10. Based on this, when Hebrew texts are translated numbers are done using a base-10 numbering system. When Sumerian texts are translated, they're done using base-60. If you take the same values given in the Sumerian King's List and convert them to base-10 rather than base-60, the amounts are actually very comparable to those in Genesis.

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