Adam Was Not the First Human, for the Bible Tells Us So

Updated on January 8, 2019
HeadlyvonNoggin profile image

For as long as he can remember, Jeremy has been formulating theories that reconcile his fascination with science and his faith in God.

"God Created Evolution" is a project consisting of multiple articles that evaluate the first 11 books of Genesis in the context of known history and modern science.
"God Created Evolution" is a project consisting of multiple articles that evaluate the first 11 books of Genesis in the context of known history and modern science.

Was Adam the First Human?

The creation of man in Genesis has always been read to mean that Adam was the first human God created. Why is that exactly? This isn't stated anywhere. In fact, what it actually says is that God created humans on day 6 of the creation account in chapter 1, then God rested on day 7 at the beginning of chapter 2, then comes the story of Adam's creation. It's nothing more than an assumption that these are two tellings of the same event.

For most of recorded human history, it really didn't matter. The events listed in the creation account were of little consequence. Whether God created all the earth in six days or in 4.54 billion years was irrelevant as there was no way of knowing one way or the other. There wasn't any reason to even suspect it was any different than how it read, and the overall message of the Bible didn't hinge on it.

Today, it does matter. In these modern times, we now understand more about the history of the earth and humanity than ever before. Modern understanding has proven to be in direct conflict with traditional interpretations of Genesis. This has resulted in many rejecting the Bible as nothing more than mythology, and many others rejecting modern wisdom and scientific progress as false.

The creation versus evolution debate has come to be one of the most divisive topics we face. Many people of faith fight tooth and nail to keep topics like evolution out of the school curriculum, and many others don't see why their children must remain in the dark because some people can't let go of their old religious beliefs.

The interpretation that says Adam was the first man in existence is the primary misconception that makes the Bible and modern science seemingly incompatible. Correcting this one small error takes pre-flood Genesis out of the realm of mythology and plants it firmly into known history.

Sumerian writing tablet recording the allocation of beer.
Sumerian writing tablet recording the allocation of beer. | Source

The Mythology of the First Civilization

Civilization first began in Mesopotamia over five thousand years ago, and the Sumerians are credited as the inventors. They built the first cities that ever existed, with populations in the tens of thousands made possible through their development of large-scale year-round agriculture.

Throughout the rise of civilization the Sumerians became talented builders. They also created the first government, the first laws, arithmetic, astronomy/astrology, the wheel, sailboats, frying pans, razors, harps, kilns for firing bricks and pottery, bronze hand tools, and plows, to name just a few.

Not long after large-scale agriculture first began, a crude form of writing was developed out of the need to keep records of labor and materials. Another first accredited to the Sumerians. Over the centuries that followed, writing became more advanced and they began to record stories passed down through generations that explained how their people came up with all of these ideas that would forever change the human race. The funny thing is, these stories didn't give credit to their ancestors. They claim they were taught by immortal human-like gods.

The Sumerian and Akkadian tablets where these Sumerian stories are found predate the oldest books of the bible by over a thousand years by our best scholarly estimations. Some of these tablets contain stories that share many very similar components to stories found in early Genesis, including the story of Adam and Eve, the biblical flood, and the confusing of a once universal language. Numerous tablets from throughout the latter part of the 3rd millennium BC containing these stories have been found all around Mesopotamia, suggesting they were very well known in the region during that time. Because of this, it has become a more and more common assumption that some of the stories found in early Genesis were actually inspired by these ancient tales.

There’s no doubt Sumerian mythology had an impact on subsequent civilizations. The Akkadians were definitely inspired by this first civilization, considering they basically adopted much of the Sumerian lifestyle, including their mythology. Greek and Roman mythology also contains echoed themes that suggest the roots of their beliefs may have come from the well-known Sumerian beliefs as well. They all speak of multiple immortal gods, human in form, both male and female, who were fallible, moody, and often at odds with each other, and they all speak of the intermingling between these immortal beings and mortal humans, producing demigods and titans.

Were There People Before Adam and Eve?

If the creation of Adam in Genesis happened in an already populated world, given the time frame and location specified, then the humans who eventually became the Sumerians would have been the people that populated the landscape.

The Books of Moses

Other than the obvious correlation between a handful of stories in early Genesis with Sumerian mythology, the Books of Moses are very much unique.

The most obvious quality that differentiates them from the others is that in this story there is only one God. The Greeks were fascinated by these books, which is why some of the oldest manuscripts of the Torah that still exist today are written in Greek. They also had a strong impact on the Romans, who after over a century of Christian persecution legalized Christianity, then a few decades later made it the only legal religion. What's more, the books have continuously been an ever-present influence on the western world in every age since. Today, the Books of Moses serve as the foundation for the world’s two largest religions, making up half the world’s population, three thousand years later. No other writings from these ancient civilizations can make that claim.

At the same time, in today’s scientifically enlightened age many dismiss Genesis as nothing more than mythology. There are nearly as many in the non-religious, secular, agnostic, or atheist category as there are Muslims, making them the third largest group behind Christians and Muslims.

One reason for this is because it has been confirmed that those events in early Genesis did not happen. For instance, we’ve confirmed geologically that there has never been a global flood. The last time the entire planet was covered with water was over three billion years ago when land did not yet exist, let alone humans. And we have confirmed genetically that, while every human alive today does actually share a common ancestor, this ancestor existed in Africa tens of thousands of years before the events of Genesis.

Those interpretations of Genesis that say the flood was global and that Adam was the first human to exist were formed centuries ago by people who couldn’t have known any better. Now, we do. Rereading the first five and one-quarter chapters of Genesis for what it actually says, and not for what we’ve always been told it says, tells a very different story that's much more in sync with our modern scientifically-based understanding.

A map of DNA migration.
A map of DNA migration.

What Was the State of the Earth During Genesis?

The first order of business is to establish the proper context. What was the state of the Earth during the time frame in which early Genesis is set?

Pre-Flood Genesis in an Already Populated World Context

We now know that by 10,000 BC homo sapiens had already populated the planet and had over the course of many generations established themselves as the dominant species in the animal kingdom, which is exactly what the humans created in Genesis 1 were commanded to do:

And God blessed them, and God said unto them, "Be fruitful and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it; and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth." (Genesis 1:28)

We also know that humans in this same region were the first to use the seeds in seed baring vegetation to grow food starting around 9,000 BC, which matches up with the illustration in Genesis 1 of God teaching humans. Where these same verses also state that the animals will use these plants for food as well, only with the humans does it specifically talk about the seeds that then bare other seed-bearing plants:

Then God said, “I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food.

And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds in the sky and all the creatures that move along the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food. ” And it was so. (Genesis 1:29-30)

And we also know through climatological evidence that this same region matched the description given at the beginning of Genesis 2 from around 6,200 BC due to the dramatic shift in climate that transformed much of the region from lush green lands to desert. An aridification event often referred to as the 8.2 kiloyear event:

No no shrub had yet appeared on the earth and no plant had yet sprung up, for the Lord God had not sent rain on the earth and there was no one to work the ground. (Genesis 2:5)

Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden.
Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden.

Adam, Eve, and the Garden of Eden

But where the humans (and everything else) in Genesis 1 were specifically told what to do, in Genesis 2 Adam was only told what not to do: He was to eat from any tree but the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, "Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat;

but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it. For in the day that thou eatest thereof, thou shalt surely die." (Genesis 2:16-17)

In fact, the whole theme of the Adam and Eve story has to do with them exhibiting their own individual free will. For instance, one of the very first things it says God did after placing Adam in the garden was to bring the animals to Adam to see what he would call them.

And out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air, and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them; and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof. (Genesis 2:19)

The humans created in Genesis 1 were given very specific commands that would take generations to realize. They were told to:

  • Populate and subdue the Earth
  • Establish dominance in the animal kingdom

So how could Adam, Eve, and their descendants be expected to accomplish these things considering how capable and willing they were to disobey?

Reconsidering things with the idea that Adam was not the first human, but rather was the first human capable of behaving contrary to God's will in an already populated world of humans yields many interesting possibilities both throughout the remainder of the bible itself, as well as far outside of it.

Cain leads able to death.
Cain leads able to death. | Source

Who Were the "Others" That Cain Feared?

Within the Bible, some of the more cryptic and confusing verses in the chapters to follow begin to make much more sense if the region was already populated when Adam was created. Like the unnamed "others" that Cain expressed concern about in chapter 4. The concern God is validated by somehow "marking" him to protect him from harm.

Cain said to the Lord, “My punishment is more than I can bear.

Today you are driving me from the land, and I will be hidden from your presence; I will be a restless wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me.”

But the Lord said to him, “Not so; anyone who kills Cain will suffer vengeance seven times over. ” Then the Lord put a mark on Cain so that no one who found him would kill him. (Genesis 4:13-15)

It also puts a whole new spin on the first few verses of chapter 6, those which talk about the "sons of God" finding the "daughters of humans" beautiful and having children by them. This comes right in the middle of its explanation for why the flood was necessary. It even goes on to explain that humans are mortal and live less than a hundred and twenty years, contrary to the hundreds of years it says Adam and his descendants lived in chapter 5.

And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth and daughters were born unto them,

that the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were fair; and they took for themselves wives of all whom they chose.

And the Lord said, "My Spirit shall not always strive with man, for he also is flesh; yet his days shall be a hundred and twenty years." (Genesis 6:1-3)

Noah's ark.
Noah's ark. | Source

Was the Flood Really Global?

This should be obvious, but many still hold onto the belief that the flood completely covered the entire Earth. Even in the traditional context this would not make sense as the flood occurred just 10 generations after Adam. So Adam's descendants could not have populated more than a small portion of the Earth. There would be no need in that sense to flood the entire planet. Not to mention the fact that the authors of the bible would have no sense of what global really means as the entirety of the Earth from their perspective was the land they lived in.

But even beyond that reasoning, there are a couple of subtle clues that tell us the flood wasn't a global phenomenon that wiped out everything that lived. The first comes at the end of chapter four when the author explains that three of Cain's descendants were the "fathers of all those who: lived in tents and herded cattle, played stringed instruments, made metal tools."

And Adah bore Jabal; he was the father of those who dwell in tents, and of those who have cattle.

And his brother's name was Jubal; he was the father of all those who handle the harp and organ.

And Zillah, she also bore Tubalcain, an instructor of every artificer in brass and iron; and the sister of Tubalcain was Naamah. (Genesis 4:20-22)

These descendants come seven generations after Cain, which is the same number of generations Methuselah was from Seth. Methuselah died the same year as the flood, probably in it. Specifically stating that these descendants "fathered' or "instructed" anyone would be totally pointless if Cain's descendants and everyone else were wiped out in the flood. Plus, it's clear these verses are referring to individuals the intended reader is familiar with, so they couldn't be people who hadn't existed since the flood.

The other clue can be seen in the only two biblical mentions of the 'Nephilim'. One before the flood:

The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men who were of old, the men of renown. (Genesis 6:4)

And one after:

So they brought to the people of Israel a bad report of the land that they had spied out, saying, “The land, through which we have gone to spy it out, is a land that devours its inhabitants, and all the people that we saw in it are of great height.

And there we saw the Nephilim (the sons of Anak, who come from the Nephilim), and we seemed to ourselves like grasshoppers, and so we seemed to them.” (Numbers 13:32-33)

Of course, simply proving the flood wasn't actually global doesn't do much considering the whole purpose of the flood was to wipe out the "wicked" element that had risen in humanity. A localized flood would hardly accomplish that in this already populated world scenario. But, if Adam was the introduction of free will, and wickedness was only possible through free will, then a local flood of the Mesopotamian valley would be all it would take. In fact, that valley, which is a geological equivalent of a storm drain, would be the perfect location to place an element as potentially dangerous as free will.

Adam Was Not the First Man

In this modern age, many will surely find this a bit much to swallow. But in the context of the evolution of life as we understand it, the appearance of a new species of humans with free will and extended lifespans would be no more of a leap than the change from single-celled to multi-celled organisms or the adaptations that made crawling up onto land from the sea possible.

Even in the progression of the Homo genus, there were large leaps forward from one species to the next. However, if an even more advanced species did actually appear just a few thousand years ago, they're certainly not here anymore. Of course, according to the story, they were all washed away by a large flood. Mass extinctions play a crucial role throughout the evolutionary history of life. In that context, the flood was merely the last of many edits that shaped life as we know it today.

Is this possible?

Even if any physical remains that could potentially confirm this theory had been washed out to sea by a large flood, certainly the existence of beings like this would have left some sort of lasting impression, especially if they existed for over sixteen hundred years in a region populated by humans. You might expect to see rapid advancements in intellectual and technological capabilities, like what appears to have happened with the Sumerians and the Egyptians. Or you might expect to see their influence reflected in the mythology written by these ancient civilizations, like what can be seen in the Sumerian, Akkadian, Babylonian, Greek, and Roman stories: Immortal beings who lived the equivalent of ten mortal lifespans who were exceptionally wise and knowledgeable in agricultural practices, who were prone to human emotion, who bred with mortal humans and created beings of both bloodlines, then disappeared.

Chapter 1 of the Book of Genesis (Video)

© 2012 Jeremy Christian

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    • HeadlyvonNoggin profile imageAUTHOR

      Jeremy Christian 

      113 minutes ago from Texas

      Thedecadentone,

      I agree. There's not going to be some conformation that no longer requires faith. God has set it up as a choice that isn't made for you. You have to choose to believe. To have faith where there is no certainty.

      Faith is not something that is easy or that comes naturally. It can be lost.

    • HeadlyvonNoggin profile imageAUTHOR

      Jeremy Christian 

      114 minutes ago from Texas

      Antonio50S,

      I agree with you where 'hell' is concerned. From what I can discern, hell is not some place you go to burn for all eternity. Hell is a grave. Death. The end of natural life.

      Without faith and willfully choosing God you cease to be. John 3:16 says "shall not perish". Perishing is not burning for eternity. Perishing is ending.

    • profile image

      Antonio50S 

      32 hours ago

      Regarding the translation of "hell" in the N/T ? Its not even a true translation from the original greek. Which really should be translated "Grave"

      Knowing that, any future life we get is a bonus via the right attitudes, but if we should die ? We won't know the difference anyway. It's good not to worry about the opinions and interpretations of others.

    • profile image

      Antonio50S 

      33 hours ago

      We also have the idea that he that "seeks for it as for hidden treasures" will find the very knowledge of God.

      Not everyone is born with a natural faith, if that was the case, then that would invalidate maybe the whole bible itself, and render all biblical teachings useless. Why do some have to "split hairs" and not let others find their own way ? Who are we to judge someone else's servant ? Rom 14

    • profile image

      Antonio50S 

      33 hours ago

      Apology. Meant to say "Remains" of the inner gate. And "Nebuchadnezzar II" "Reign" which lasted around 2000 years prior to 539 when Cyrus destroyed Babylon in the year 539 BC.

      The details and fact's that "Nimrod" ordered the "Tower of Bable" to be built are supported in these discoveries as well, which wasn't long after the biblical flood when the Sumerians appeared.

      Nubuchadnezzar was that "Head of Gold" in the book daniel, and that is also proved by these discoveries that he was the greatest ruler who ruled throughout the world during this period. Before that, you had other rulerships that ruled, BUT before the biblical flood which is supported in these biblical discoveries.

    • profile image

      Thedecadentone 

      33 hours ago

      We're not meant to know everything, hence faith. The majority of things, but not all, not yet. Also, God apparenty doesn't just want any old Tom, Dick or Hariette to receive eternal life as even Jesus refused to explain everything unless people kept seeking him out and showed true interest in knowing God. The metaphor of eating and drinking his blood to remember him being a prime example of something that chased off hoards of people even though he certainly didn't mean he wanted people to litetally take bites and gulps out of him. He never chased down a single person or group to try and better explain what he meant or convert people to his way of thinking. He said what he said, and only a few times did he repeat in lamens terms his riddles and parables to those closest to him. The deep mysteries can only be unfolded when you seek first the kingdom. The Hebrew people in general loved their figures of speech and idioms. It often takes a lot investigative work sifting the wheat from the chaff to seperate the literal from the figurative. For instance Jesus tells several stories and explains things in riddles and figures of speech that aren't true recollections of events to get his point across, yet the ones about hell are almost always hilariously taken as stone cold fact and require huge leaps of logic and ignorance concerning the 'old testament'.

    • profile image

      Antonio50S 

      34 hours ago

      Just some interesting information.

      As years centuries and millenniums go by, things that happened for real can seem like myths.

      The excavations of the gate of Ishtar of Babylon was discovered from 1899 onwards, and is now reconstructed in the "Pergamon Museum in berlin" The ramaims of the inner gate that was discovered was so large that it had to be put in storage.

      The discoveries even support the "Tower of Bable" where God confused the languages of people, and ( Nebuchadnezzar 11 ) of babylon even tried to reverse the confusion of languages by bringing people from other nations together again, thats why thousands of different gods and temples were found throughout Babylon. That reighn of Babylon lasted around 2000 years till the troops of Cyrus the great of Persia came and destroyed Babylon in the year 539 BC in fulfillments of Gods prophesies in ( Jeremiah 25 )

      In all biblical archaeological discoveries, NOTHING has yet disproved the bible, but only supported it, yet if we take God out the equation, there would be so many things that just don't add up in the history of Mankind.

    • profile image

      JeiJei 

      2 days ago from Planet Earth

      Fascinating theory!

    • HeadlyvonNoggin profile imageAUTHOR

      Jeremy Christian 

      7 days ago from Texas

      Joseph,

      Please see my hub on creation to see my view on these verses.

      The gap theory is just way too much baseless speculation for me to take seriously.

    • profile image

      Joseph 

      7 days ago

      This in some ways fit the Gap Fact. From the first two verses of Genesis. In the first verse God creates the Heaven and Earth. note: both singular in the 1611 AV. In verse 2 the Earth is with out form

      And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

      Genesis 1:2 KJV

      Note, When God creates and forms He does not create without form, and void. Also the darkness was upon the face of the deep.

      Consider: between verse 1 and verse 2 there is a Gap of time. If God creates perfection Psalm 18:30 ( Golden Age) then what caused verse 2?

    • HeadlyvonNoggin profile imageAUTHOR

      Jeremy Christian 

      12 days ago from Texas

      Hi Stella,

      You're right, it does say "all the living". Clearly this isn't talking about all living things. It's specifically talking about those that come from Adam and Eve.

      Other passages I've pointed to here make it clear there's another group of humans. This line about Eve is vague, but I think it leaves open this possibility. There's a lot you have to ignore to make the traditional interpretation work.

    • Stella Kaye profile image

      Stella Kaye 

      12 days ago from UK

      Some interesting speculations here but it does clearly state in the Bible that Eve is the mother of all living:

      'And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.' (Genesis 3.20)

      So anyone with a belief in the Bible could never accept the concept that there were already other humans in existence as contemporaries of Adam and Eve.

    • profile image

      Rosi 

      12 days ago

      Great article thanks for this! Definitely adds to the theory. Im researching the degree to which the bible has been edited and changed to reflect certain narratives. This really opened up some new ideas.

    • profile image

      Aaron 

      2 weeks ago

      Very interesting Jeremy! Illusions are based on a series of false logical and circumstantial assumptions. It’s usually the “obvious” staring us right in the face at the beginning of the trick that we take for granted. It seems we do that with Genesis at times. We may know what it says, but it’s just as important to know what it doesn’t say.

      Well written! Thanks!

    • profile image

      AlbertSY 

      3 weeks ago

      Hi Jeremy Christian,

      Completely agree.

      I read on a French website which explains very well the differences in the 2 stories when God created man on the 6th day and when the LORD God created Adam.

      The contexts were different, the processes were different, the vocabularies are also very different.

      When the LORD God (see the difference??? the LORD God) created Adam, it was about fields, cultivate the ground and plant a garden (Eden).

      In other words, it is about the beginning of the civilisation...

      Anyway, the study the Bible requires an eternity and it would not be enough.

      It is hard to pretend that mankind (or any church) has understood everything from the Bible.

      Have a nice day.

    • HeadlyvonNoggin profile imageAUTHOR

      Jeremy Christian 

      4 weeks ago from Texas

      Shaffner12586,

      I'm afraid you misunderstand. I am not ruling out the possibility of life before the ancient sumerians. I am suggesting there was no free will before the sumerians. Or, more techically, before Adam and Eve, whose offspring eventually led to the Sumerians.

    • schaffner12586 profile image

      schaffner12586 

      4 weeks ago

      Interesting article but I don't understand how someone who studies the bible can rule out the possibility of life before ancient sumerians. Are you in "tight with God" or something? Got the inside scoop? Well, I'm no expert but I have been studying the bible for almost as long as I've been a minister (around 18 years) and I'll tell you this, when it comes to our Lord anything is possible. Besides, think of how many scholars have gone over the bible and each one came up with a different interpretation. It means something different to just about everyone who reads it.

    • profile image

      Antonio50S 

      5 weeks ago

      Will tell you a story about another well know man and his daughter.

      CHARLES DARWIN the father of evolution.

      Only this time Charles wasn't so lucky.

      This is something i stumbled across by accident. The "Grave of Charles Darwins daughter at the Priory of "Great Malvern" UK" who died at the age of 10 in 1851

      Not something i went looking for, but did find out later, ANNE was Charles favourite of children, and with Charles knowledge of the natural world, for some reason he was duped into thinking that "Dr Gully's water cure" would actually cure a sickness which ANNE had at the time.

      Around 500 yards from Great Malvern Priory, you have "Montreal House" with it's stunning views overlooking the Hills. That's where Anne was residing at that time due to her illness.

      While a relative of Darwin was with ANNE, Rumblings were heard over the hills of Great Malvern, Charles went to check on his daughter, but she was dead.

      Things we don't hear about, Charles spent the remainder of his life weeping over the death of his favourite daughter.

      We can argue as much as we like about proof or lack of in support of a worldwide flood, but at the end of the day, they will never bring comfort for the death of a daughter.

      I know Jesus could have, even after 4 day's Jesus raised LAZARUS from the dead, that was also the point the religious leaders of Jesus time decided this man must Go, they seen him as a threat. What they never knew however, they were fulfilling a prophecy about Jesus Birth, Death, and Resurrection which was given over 2000 years before Jesus was even born.

      About Montreal House in that location ? that's the last place in the world i would choose to die. Death surrounded by beauty, what a life. No wonder Charles never got over ANNE'S death.

      Whatever Augustine was talking about, there's higher laws in our universe which give greater meaning and purpose to life.

    • profile image

      Antonio50S 

      5 weeks ago

      Jeremy. I would just like to say you're a good man, not everyone agrees on everything, but i will say this about myself. Deep down ( I love everyone )

      Quote ( 1 Cor 8 v 1 N/T ) "Knowledge Puffs up, but love builds up"

      Extract from a letter from ALBERT EINSTEIN to his daughter.

      "To give visibility to love, I made a simple substitution in my most famous equation. If instead of E = mc2, we accept that the energy to heal the world can be obtained through love mutiplied by the speed of light squared, we arrive at the conclusion that love is the most powerful force there is, because it has no limits"

      We will never understand the mind of God untill we understant that love literally is the most powerful force there is, with no limits.

      God may well have ordered the destruction of the canaanites, due to the things they were doing, but his main attribute of ( love ) has never changed, the plan of sending his son into the world was fortold way before the canaanites even existed. When God makes plans, he does so for the benefit of ( ALL ) future generations to come "not just ours"

      That's Love.

    • HeadlyvonNoggin profile imageAUTHOR

      Jeremy Christian 

      5 weeks ago from Texas

      Antonio50S,

      "... if we go by ( St. Augustines ) views and interpretations on biblical passages, which is everything to do with Faith,..."

      I disagree. Augustine here is talking about interpreting the text of biblical passages in light of "demonstrable knowledge", AKA science.

    • profile image

      Antonio50S 

      5 weeks ago

      Partly understand what you're saying, but if we go by ( St. Augustines ) views and interpretations on biblical passages, which is everything to do with Faith, belief & the existence of a God, then we may be swayed to accept peoples interepretations rather than Gods.

      As the scriptures say ( Do not interpretations belong to God )

      Appreciate what your doing mind, still good work. Test all things out, or else it may just be Blind faith to "some"

      Let the Chips fall where they may.

    • HeadlyvonNoggin profile imageAUTHOR

      Jeremy Christian 

      5 weeks ago from Texas

      Antonio50S,

      Understanding an ancient text and reconsidering our interpretation of it in light of what's now known has nothing to do with faith in God. This evaluation has nothing to do with determining whether or not God exists. Only the correct context of the text.

    • profile image

      Antonio50S 

      5 weeks ago

      Not sure if "personally" agree with St. Agustine.

      If we have to base personal beliefs by ( the current state of demostrable knowledge ) then maybe the beliefs are not that strong ?

      People that know what they believe in and why, don't get Fazed just because the current state of knowledge don't agree with their beliefs.

    • profile image

      Antonio50S 

      5 weeks ago

      To Jeremy.

      Appreciate the work your doing. Not trying to change anybodies mind since we're all adults capable of forming our own opinions.

      I'm no geologist, but i was reading up on Sedimentary and Silt deposits.

      A bit hard to explain, but a lot of the Sedimentary or Silt deposits are actually all around our Globe, maybe not Equally, but the geological formation of our planet is not Equal either, it varies in different parts of the world, so the Silt deposits would also vary.

      It's also interesting that a lot of islands are actually Tops of Mountains, and to my understanding, the waters never covered the highest mountains by that much to begin with.

      Plus this idea of water receding was already mentioned in genesis, therefore the idea was already there.

      There's no reason why the ancient peoples would come up with these details and information ( Unless a worldwide flood did actually happen for real )

      All things are possible, and our interpretation of evidence also changes when new evidence is provided.

      Quote from ( Carl Sagan )

      "Human beings have a demonstrated talent for self-deception when their emotions are stirred"

      The reason this quote is so important is because it don't just deal with science and evidence, it deals with motives and the intentions of the human heart.

      Even though Carl was right in what he said, he also had trouble accsepting that the Cambrian Geoligical record supported Sudden Creation as opposed to gradual evolution, hence the term ( Cambrian Explosion )

      Science has tried to explain this away by saying ( It wasn't that Sudden really ) meaning, instead of say 300 Million years, they narrowed it down to around 20 Million. Even then, why would that explain the Sudden Explosion of life forms ?

      Really, there's a lot in the Silt, Sedimentary, and Geological records to give validity to many accounts in the bible. Including findings which supports the destruction of cities like ( Sodom & Gomorrah ) if we take God out the pucture, and attribute this to natural events ? They still happened anyway, and the bible is Still Correct.

      The rest is just FAITH.

    • HeadlyvonNoggin profile imageAUTHOR

      Jeremy Christian 

      5 weeks ago from Texas

      Chris Allen,

      You are correct. The traditional interpretations of the texts were made long ago before we knew as much as we know now. So I'm re-evaluating the text in light of modern knowledge.

      St. Augustine, one of the forefathers of the modern church, said it best when he said, "The interpretations of biblical passages must be informed by the current state of demonstrable knowledge". That is exactly what I'm doing.

      As for creation in 6 days, keep in mind that that's just how it was translated into English. The word translated as "days" also means an indeterminate span of time, or an "age". So it's just as accurate to say the Earth was created in 6 ages. And like a day, an age can also have a beginning and end, or an "evening" and a "morning".

    • profile image

      Chris Allen 

      5 weeks ago

      Jeremy,

      I’m going to pick your brain on different ideas I have on what you have said in your piece. I will do it into segments, with the hope I don't become to long winded.

      To start you say there was a time it didn’t matter if God created all of earth in 6 days, or in 4.5 billion years. But now with science it does.. I question it as with science, why couldn’t six days and 4.5 billion years be one and the same? Which also puts validity to the big bang.

      For what I understand of the science of time travel is. The faster you move the slower time becomes for you. For example: You leave earth faster then the speed of light. You get to a certain point and return to earth, moving faster then light the whole way. To you that trip took you three day. But when you return , you would find that three years has passed on earth. Because of the different rates of speed things are moving.

      Now the big bang. For what I learned is a singular point where every thing started. I believe is from a black hole.,and the point where god started our universe . If a black hole is like a funnel, where the large opening is take in matter ,compresses it and explodes out the smallest end. God took matter from a different universe and made ours. That with time travel. At the singular point exploding fast then the speed of light , God was able to make things happen in six days. As things moved away from the singular and time itself sped up, that same instance became 4.5 billion years.. Also with that are discoveries of black holes, where I feel God is making other universes . Because it says God created everything in six day and rested on the seventh. It dint say he created everything in six days then retired.

      I hope all that makes sense, and I didn’t drag it out to long

    • profile image

      Chris Allen 

      5 weeks ago

      Jeremy,

      I’ve read a lot of different posts on here, and posted myself around 5-6 months ago. I’m very happy to see the discussion is still going strong.

      I’ve read posts where it appears some people have implied you are questioning gods word. Please correct me if I’m wrong. But it seems to me you are not questioning the word of god, But you are questioning mans interpenetration of gods word.(two very different things.) Am I correct in that assumption?

      I mainly would like to say I love this forum, With the different ideas and thoughts everyone brings to the table. Whether I agree with them or not.

      I believe this is gods plan. This is why he gave us free will. To be able to question, comprehend, and learn. To have open forums like this, to discuss and debate. So man would have the ability to have different points of view, to base discussions on.

      With that he gave us the ability to learn. Things like science, and technology. So we can ask more questions, and seek more answers..I love science, and different theories. because I feel more and more, little by little. It validates gods word. Which I believe is gods true plan. Not for us to be led blindly, like cattle. But to discover gods word to be the true on our own. And is why he gave us free will..

      So thank you Jeremy for opening this conduit of discussion. And thanks to all who have posted in it, no matter if you agree or digress with what is stated on this site. Your opinions to me are just as valuable as Jeremy’s. Because you help in this quest for knowledge and truth.

    • profile image

      Antonio50S 

      5 weeks ago

      What you say makes sense, but i don't think it took long for the waters to recede.

    • HeadlyvonNoggin profile imageAUTHOR

      Jeremy Christian 

      5 weeks ago from Texas

      During floods, when land remains submerged for a long period of time, it creates a silt deposit that can be seen in the strata of the soil. If at anytime the entirety of the planet's continents was submerged for however many months there would be one consistent layer of silt deposit across every continent.

    • profile image

      Antonio50S 

      5 weeks ago

      Well, i thought you might refer to the evidence of sea fossils high up in the mountains. Why can't that be part of the soil strata ? And why should it be common sense when there's never been a worldwide flood before ?

      If the water came from a water canopy above as mentioned in genesis, then what evidence would you expect in the soil strata ?

      Why would it be common sense ??

    • HeadlyvonNoggin profile imageAUTHOR

      Jeremy Christian 

      6 weeks ago from Texas

      Antonio50S ,

      What am I omitting?

      "Regarding the consistent soil strata layer your referring to ? Who said it should be consistent everywhere ?"

      Common sense.

      "knowing how mountains are formed, out of the oceans, then why don't we have evidence to support that ?"

      We do. See the evidence of ancient sea living fossils found high up in mountain ranges.

    • profile image

      Antonio50S 

      6 weeks ago

      Jeremy. Kelly made a lot of sense, but not to sure where your coming from on all this ? If you don't believe in a God, then nothing needs to be proved, but if you do ? Then why take the bits that suit you & omit others ?

      Regarding the consistent soil strata layer your referring to ? Who said it should be consistent everywhere ? You could argue its not even consistent the oceans, but knowing how mountains are formed, out of the oceans, then why don't we have evidence to support that ?

    • HeadlyvonNoggin profile imageAUTHOR

      Jeremy Christian 

      6 weeks ago from Texas

      Kelly,

      "120 yr lifespands was introduced after the garden not before, adam wasnt part of that."

      The ones with 120 year lifespans were another group than Adam and his kin. They're the "daughters of humans" that Genesis 6:1-5 is talking about. There was the "sons of God" (Adam and his family), and there were the "daughters of humans", who it describes as

      Genesis 5 lists 10 generations of Adam's descendants, each living for centuries. Methuselah, seven generations after Adam, died the same year as the flood, 1656 years after Adam was created. There were quite a few who lived long after the portion of Genesis 6

      "The grand canyon has actual evidence of a world wide flood."

      If there were a global flood there would be evidence globally. There would be a layer in the soil's strata consistently everywhere you looked.

    • profile image

      Kelly 

      6 weeks ago

      What do you belive happened jeremy? I noticed you quoted a couple things in the wrong order. For one the age adam lived to was in correlation with the bible. 120 yr lifespands was introduced after the garden not before, adam wasnt part of that. I believe adam was the first man i believe he was created first that doesnt mean he wasnt the only one created, i feel like lt wasnt pertinent to what god was trying to explain. And as far as global floods. The grand canyon has actual evidence of a world wide flood. Watch "Is genesis history" if you havent. It was on netflix for awhile. And as far as ive learned weve actually proven that dwarwinism is impossible, the big bang is a theory not fact and theres actual more historical proof that it did happen then didnt. Jeff perloff will blow dwarwinism out the water. Im also not sure how you can give credit to your argument to the people that lived supposedly thousands of years ago when it benefits yoir theory and in the same article take away credit because they lived so long ago and there illustration might be skewed. Basically what im saying is what the bible says. A house divided against itself cannot stand. In other words you cant take other facts from the bible to disprove other facts in the bible as you did with the age limit, food for thought revelation says that to god a day is like a year. Hes god who says we dont suffer in our ignorance and just think were right and its all fake? I also believe that gods message is different for everyperson everytime, so as much as we try and untangle what makes and doesnt make physical sense of it its abook to reflect spiritually and most people just deny and miss out on what it truly offers over word usage what came first. People pick up bibles for gods reasons.

    • profile image

      Thedecadentone 

      6 weeks ago

      Mother of all the living. Animals and plants are living, so is she their mother as well? No. The bible is chock full of things called idioms and figures of speech. Disc of the earth doesn't mean the planet is shaped like a frisbee.

      Genesis 1:16, NIV: "God made two great lights--the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars." The moon given for light in the night doesn't specifically translate to the moon being a magical light bulb. In fact in the bible every time the moon is spoken of as going dark, the SUN is always included and is referenced first. Bible does say that the moon is a lesser light in our night sky, it gives off light, and it shines. All are factually correct when considering the Hebrew word used and their context.

      Burning forever and ever like Sodom and Gomorrah is another example. The everlasting fire that burned those cities doesn't mean that it remains on fire today and forever, it just means that the fire cannot be put out but will die of its own accord when nothing is left to burn. Catholics and ravening Baptists screaming hell fire have it laughably wrong.

      Mother of the living could mean several things and isn't the only statement that baffles people because they feel like cherry picking what does and doesn't constitute as being literal or figurative language. Thankfully the Bible is so large that we have all the examples we need to tell us what certain key words mean; and when something contradicts, it is the interpretation that is wrong, not the words themselves.

      The Hebrew, especially in ancient times, love plays on words, and once one understands that, things become much clearer. Jesus didn't speak in the Hebrew version of thee, thy, and thou, he used the language of the day.

      Saying free will doesn't exist is.. why, even. I chose to have a child knowing they will suffer and die.. so does that mean they have no free will because I know their fate? As for modern/civilized, we aren't, for if the idea that humans existed before Adam.. and the great flood was local.. then we're just gentiles who likely have zero blood of Adam in us; and when Jesus spoke of adoption into Gods family, it wouldn't just be a figure of speech for something figurative or spiritual. More food for thought, no?

    • HeadlyvonNoggin profile imageAUTHOR

      Jeremy Christian 

      6 weeks ago from Texas

      TheRobertHall,

      I asked a Hebrew professor acquaintance of mine about this verse, trying to gain insight into what exactly is meant by "living". He said, "There’s nothing special/mysterious about the Hebrew here. The issue has to be settled by context(s) not lexicography."

      I can tell you what I think. It's proven to be a controversial view as it suggests a difference between us "modern/civilized" humans and indigenous people. But there's a very obvious and significant shift in human behavior right in the same time and place as when the stories of early Genesis are set. Controversial or not, I feel it's an idea that should be explored.

      In my view Adam and Eve are the first of God’s creation with free will. A lot has come into question about what I mean by that. I’ll attempt to explain.

      I mean exactly what the Adam/Eve story directly illustrates. God put Adam/Eve in an environment where only one rule existed. A rule commanded by the creator of the universe and everything in it. Yet they had the freedom of choice to choose for themselves whether or not to obey that rule. A free will in this context is exactly that. I will that is independent of God and His will.

      God’s will in this view is one and the same as natural law. According to the scientific/deterministic view, there can be no free will. Which is true. We’re made up of natural elements that behaviorally adhere to natural law. There is no willful volition in their behavior. There’s only the system and what the system does.

      This is what I believe is the significance of Adam and Eve. The difference between them and all who came before. This freedom of will to do as we choose. The Earth and this universe the perfect environment to bring a capability like this into existence. This, I believe, is the purpose behind all of it. The meaning of life.

      In my view free will ignited a behavior change that can be seen in human history as being the catalyst that created modern humanity. It’s at the root of everything. This, I believe, is what the story of early Genesis is describing. And this is how I read the verse that says Eve will be mother to all the "living".

    • profile image

      TheRobertHall 

      6 weeks ago

      Hi Jeremy,

      Very intriguing thought and insight. Thank you for sharing. I am open to learning more about your ideas. Question...if Adam (and Eve) were not the first humans on Earth, how would you address Gen 3:20 when Adam referred to Eve as the mother of all the living? If she if fact was technically not the mother of all the living, would this perhaps have been a prophecy on the part of Adam foretelling his son Seth and his decedents? Or was this perhaps Adam referring to Eve in a general way in which he was referring to all women? Example, if someone today were to name their baby "Dad". It doesn't meant they're literally everyone's dad, it just means it's the name they were given. What are your thoughts on this verse and how it plays into your perspective?

    • profile image

      Thedecadentone 

      6 weeks ago

      Jeremy is right. No need for higher tech races to visit earth. The snake was right that the tree of knowledge would actually grant knowledge. This is why technology skyrocketed once Adam arrived on scene. No need to reach for silliness when very plausibe explanations exist which mesh with the narrative.

      The flood was localized. Noah didnt need animals indigenous to south america to magically appear. The 6 days of creation was a vision relayed the best way the prophets knew how based on how the passages read. Earth would seem like it was made before the sun because carbon monoxide in the early atmosphere would have made seeing the sun and moon impossible yet there would have been light. Logically, Eden seems to have been a nursery where God augmented humanity in order to be closer to him and so that he could delegate down the responsibility to look after the world and to love him on a deeply personal level. He couldnt just make man perfect because our love has to be genuine and not programmed. He has millions of angels to sing hosanna to him so that we dont have to. God planned the fall from the get go as a test of our virtue to see who will be worthy of eternal life here, not in some fairy tale happy fluffy cloud dimension where we are orgasming forever. There are countless worlds out there for a reason. God does everything for a reason, it just seems like foolishness to the world because as Romans 8:28 states:

      And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

    • profile image

      Ali 

      7 weeks ago

      Research on Quran as well

    • HeadlyvonNoggin profile imageAUTHOR

      Jeremy Christian 

      7 weeks ago from Texas

      Ken Burgess,

      I agree. I too use a wide range of data to formulate and find truth. And that includes ancient texts, but they can be unreliable.

      In the case of the bible much has been learned about that specifically given region and time frame. We can use that to fill in a lot of the details and context not provided in the text itself. The texts are insights into the minds of the humans that populated that landscape. But it's important to try to understand who wrote it. Who were they writing to? What was the climate and politics going on at the time?

      There's much to consider, but there's a lot of information to work with.

    • HeadlyvonNoggin profile imageAUTHOR

      Jeremy Christian 

      7 weeks ago from Texas

      Jay C OBrien,

      I don't disagree about the concept of higher tech people coming into contact with lower tech and those lower tech people seeing them as gods. But I hesitate to equate Ezekiel's description as being evidence of tech to that degree.

      I believe the people described in early Genesis are the ones who inspired thoughts of gods in the people that lived among them. The beings the Sumerians saw as gods. The beings the Egyptians described. All the civilizations in that one region of the world described gods in much the same way. They called them by different names, but they were very similar in that they were beings who lived among them.

      And the influence of this interaction I believe can be seen in the sudden advancements in technologies and civilized concepts. Changes that led to modern civilization as we know it today.

    • HeadlyvonNoggin profile imageAUTHOR

      Jeremy Christian 

      7 weeks ago from Texas

      speakorbspokenfor,

      Thank you for sharing.

      That's all I hope to do. To have the conversation. I feel there's a lot to consider and discuss. It's all for the purpose of knowing better. And when we know better we do better.

    • profile image

      speakorbspokenfor 

      2 months ago

      Hi, TheNewViewbyMario

      The contradiction is:

      In G1 Vegetation was made before man and woman (v11)

      In G1 Vegetation made day 3, Man made day 6

      In G1 In the image of God he created them, male and female he created them. (AFTER vegetation)

      In G2 Man was made (v7) BEFORE vegetation (v8), vegetation was made before the woman (v22)

      In G2 No Shrub, No plant had sprung there was no one to work the ground (because man had not been made) (v5)

      In G2 Man was made first (v7) suddenly a garden had been planted(v8), the man was given the garden (v15) and commanded not to eat (v17)

      Total contradiction, It think. These events sound different enough to call into question the zoom theory. Any thoughts?

    • Jay C OBrien profile image

      Jay C OBrien 

      2 months ago from Houston, TX USA

      James A. Watkins: how many versions of the Bible are there? Is the Book of Mormon part of the Bible? Why did the Protestants remove several books from the Bible? How long had the Bible been canonized before the Protestants removed books?

      More importantly, should God be depicted as Good or Evil?

    • James A Watkins profile image

      James A Watkins 

      2 months ago from Chicago

      Ken Burgess ~ This is not my Hub but you asked, "When it comes to the Bible, how many chapters have been revised, books removed, expanded or rewritten over the centuries?" The answer is none, none, none and none. The Bible has been TRANSLATED into 5500 languages, far more than any book ever, but it has never been revised, expanded, rewritten, or books removed.

    • Ken Burgess profile image

      Ken Burgess 

      2 months ago from Florida

      It is hard to discern actual history, the causes for events, how they actually unfolded, etc.

      Much of the reason for this is the people who report events, history, etc. may have an agenda, may have misguided beliefs, may want to deliberately deceive.

      For myself, I try to discern what is, based on the widest cast of information I can gather.

      When they are reporting information about Ice drillings done in Antarctica, what are we learning about 10,000 years ago, 100,000 years ago, and how does that fit into other information available?

      When you see pictures of monolithic structures found in Egypt, and compare them to the ones found in Jordan, in Peru, in Japan, what similarities of construction and rock surface do you notice?

      When they do searches just offshore, in places like India, Israel, Egypt, etc. what are they finding, does it seem that across the globe, you can find ruins of city after city just underwater, 50 feet, 100 feet, 300 feet below the surface?

      When it comes to the Bible, how many chapters have been revised, books removed, expanded or rewritten over the centuries? And what do the ancient texts tell us?

      The Sumerians themselves, talk about ancient civilizations and other people that came before them, so how far back does humanity really reach, and how many global disasters have we survived?

    • James A Watkins profile image

      James A Watkins 

      2 months ago from Chicago

      Thank you for your gracious response. As you said so well, "the Sumerians never mentioned Adam and Eve by name, but they cover a lot of the same stuff including a catastrophic flood, the confusing of a once universal language." That, of course, makes perfect sense if the Great Flood and the Tower are Babel are true. People outside the Bible would also remember such incredible events and pass along stories about them to their descendants.

    • profile image

      speakorbspokenfor 

      2 months ago

      Hi! I am not even done reading, but I can guess where it is going and I am just so excited to find some intellectual theism, which so many claim cannot exist. I absolutely applaud your efforts to reconcile the Bible with Science. This is something I have always wanted to do. But I am neither a theologian nor scientist. I grew up without any spirituality, then became a God-despising atheist, followed by a biology is God-ist. Then life took me down and I started seeking. I continue to seek because my life changed for the better when I began to consider there was more to this than random chance and met a woman who personified what it would mean to be like Jesus on this earth. People with true grace, who emanate love even when they don't like what they are seeing. I admire all people who are gentle like that. It is so counter-intuitive, there must be something to it! I have a had a hard time settling into the idea that all the hate and judgement I see in the world is somehow what Jesus had in mind. Recently, I am settling into something that reconciles the many experiences I have collected over the years with my sense of something more, with what the bible says and with science, which I love. I use what Jesus said as the cornerstone by which I measure all scripture. If it conflicts with what he says, I consider it carefully. I was baptised at 42. I read the bible, I attempt to apply the ideas Jesus taught to my life and thought processes, but I don't call myself a Christian because Christians and I cannot agree on much but the core and not often how the core should be practiced. This relates to the fact that I think, for much of the old testament, they are listening to a fallible, "fallen", demi-gogue, who just wanted to be appreciated for his intelligence (ego). I believe something, outside our comprehension created the universe. I hesitantly uncover my heretical badge to those Christians I sense are open to being challenged, so steadfast are they in their beliefs, as to be incredibly graceful in their approach. I have been led to a few. But never to a

      more evidence based mind who will consider religion, then finally, after googling for 2 years, I found something even minutely congruent to my own thoughts. I am very interested in reading more of your ideas. In my view of things one very important truth remains: that we view this mystery and how we are to approach it with radical humility and reverence for the unimaginable power that is and always was. I have even considered the truth of this idea means I could forgive Satan if I chose, hence the radical part (I would first have to truly grasp his crimes against me, which I doubt I have and also get better at forgiving!). I am literally just beginning this journey, so I am a learner with many questions and ideas I hope to read about and bounce off people with open minds and knowledge of religion AND science. Thanks for being a brave soul and trying to bring light to difficult subjects.

    • Jay C OBrien profile image

      Jay C OBrien 

      2 months ago from Houston, TX USA

      I propose there was an ancient civilization with the power of flight. The Hi-tech people came in contact with the low tech people and the low tech people thought they were gods. See Ezekiel and Hindu texts.

      EZEKIEL IS AT THE RIVER CHEBAR (PERSIA). Ezekiel 1:1

      In the thirtieth year, in the fourth month, on the fifth day of the month, as I was among the exiles by the river Chebar, the heavens were opened and I saw visions of God.

      EZEKIEL SEES A MACHINE FLY OUT OF A CLOUD. Ezekiel 1:4-28

      As I looked, a stormy wind came out of the north: a great cloud with brightness around it and fire flashing forth continually, and in the middle of the fire, something like gleaming amber. In the middle of it was something like four living creatures.

      EZEKIEL DESCRIBES THE LANDING GEAR. Ezekiel 1:5-19

      As I looked at the living creatures, I saw a wheel on the earth beside the living creatures, one for each of the four of them. As for the appearance of the wheels and their construction: their appearance was like the gleaming of beryl; and the four had the same form, their construction being something like a wheel within a wheel.

      EZEKIEL DESCRIBES THE COCKPIT. Ezekiel 1:22-25

      Over the heads of the living creatures there was something like a dome, shining like crystal, spread out above their heads.

      EZEKIEL SEES AND HEARS THE PILOT. Ezekiel 1:26-28

      And above the dome over their heads there was something like a throne, in appearance like sapphire; and seated above the likeness of a throne was something that seemed like a human form..... When I saw it, I fell on my face and I heard the voice of someone speaking.

      EZEKIEL SEES THE SAME MACHINE IN A VALLEY. Ezekiel 3:22-23

      Then the hand of the Lord was upon me there; and he said to me, Rise up, goes out into the valley, and there I will speak with you. So I rose up and went out into the valley; and the glory of the Lord stood there, like the glory that I had seen by the river Chebar; and I fell on my face.

    • HeadlyvonNoggin profile imageAUTHOR

      Jeremy Christian 

      2 months ago from Texas

      Good to hear from you Jay,

      There's a lot to process here. But the initial thought I want to throw out there is the use of "appear". I cannot think of any other character in the bible who is described this way when they encounter someone else.

      It seems a strange way to describe the meeting of men.

    • HeadlyvonNoggin profile imageAUTHOR

      Jeremy Christian 

      2 months ago from Texas

      James,

      No, the Sumerians never mentioned Adam and Eve by name, but they cover a lot of the same stuff including a catastrophic flood, the confusing of a once universal language, and this ....

      "This first man was created in Eden, a Sumerian word which means ‘flat terrain’. In the Epic of Gilgamesh , Eden is mentioned as the garden of the gods and is located somewhere in Mesopotamia between the Tigris and Euphrates rivers. "

      Which makes sense if the Sumerians are the humans who populate the background of the stories of Genesis as they both share the same location and history.

    • Jay C OBrien profile image

      Jay C OBrien 

      2 months ago from Houston, TX USA

      I would like to offer another view for your review. What do you think: https://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/The-Lord-...

    • James A Watkins profile image

      James A Watkins 

      2 months ago from Chicago

      You've got some interesting ideas. I always appreciate a 'seeker' of the Truth like yourself. However, you give Sumerian myths too much credit. They do not mention 'Adam and Eve' or show them being created as they are in the Holy Bible. And you say whomever wrote the Bible "just didn't know any better" than to write what they wrote. But you do know better. The Author of the Bible is God Himself, the Creator of all that is. Therefore, He does know better.

      You say the Great Flood has been disproved by Science but that is not so. Unless you can travel in time, it cannot be disproved. Ever. The Bible clearly says Adam and Eve were the first human beings. If you doubt that you do not believe in revelation, which is the foundational principle of the Bible.

    • profile image

      Angie 

      2 months ago

      You make a good argument. I never could figure out who Cain was afraid of either. I am going to discuss this idea with my family. At the most basic level, we place Adam near the dawn of Bronze Age, so how do we explain evidence of the Stone Age and evidence that there were people all over the world? The Hebrew calendar has year 1 at 3761 BCE and is dated from the Creation of Adam. But we have too much evidence of time before that - we don’t even have to go wild with millions and billions, we just have evidence of things older than that. I feel like your basic premise is very reasonable.

    • HeadlyvonNoggin profile imageAUTHOR

      Jeremy Christian 

      2 months ago from Texas

      Hi Ethan,

      "adam was the first to walk on earth"

      The problem with that is that it doesn't line up historically.

      Abraham was born 20 generations after Adam, roughly 2000 years later. His father was from Sumer and he dealt with an Egyptian pharaoh. Neither of those places existed prior to about 5000 BC, making the earliest Adam could have existed to be about 7000 BC.

      As we know historically, there have been humans walking the Earth for hundreds of thousands of years.

      So, that can't be true.

      It's made clear in the text that others existed outside the garden. Like the others Cain feared would harm him when he was kicked out.

      So both science and the bible contradict your statement.

    • profile image

      ethan 

      2 months ago

      adam was the first to walk on earth

    • HeadlyvonNoggin profile imageAUTHOR

      Jeremy Christian 

      2 months ago from Texas

      Jason,

      That's why I use science. Scientifically gained knowledge lays out a framework we can work with. We can see, once these events are pinpointed in time and place, what's being described. Put some context to those words.

    • HeadlyvonNoggin profile imageAUTHOR

      Jeremy Christian 

      2 months ago from Texas

      TripleJay,

      There are deeply ingrained beliefs surrounding the more traditional interpretations of the bible. A lot of the knowledge that makes it so apparent to you and I has only been learned in the past few decades.

      People are coming around. It's just going to take some time.

    • profile image

      Jason McLaughlin 

      2 months ago

      Hi Jeremy,having read through your theory id like to say its pretty decent and definitely caught my attention, so well done mate it has clarified a few things for me and made me ask questions whilst also providing me answers to questions iv have been asked by others but not been able to provide an adequate response so yeah excellent work. The problem i have with much of the bible is the simple fact that when it was written, the language that would have been used is so far removed from what we understand as English today that it simply would not make much sense, The English language a few hundred years ago does not make much sense in our version of it today. As we both know there have been hundreds of versions of the bible available in many different languages throughout history so how we decipher this is beyond me, also as far as I am led to believe the New Age Translation version is the closest translation we have from the ancient Hebrew scriptures and even that translated into English is a tough read, believe me iv read it. So i guess all I am saying is how can we even begin to interpret the bible correctly when the versions we have are that far removed from the original scriptures?

    • profile image

      TripleJay 

      3 months ago

      My apologies in my last comment. I mentioned 2018. I meant 2019...

    • profile image

      TripleJay 

      3 months ago

      Thanks for the read & insight. I was converted to Christianity in 1995. The whole Adam was the first man theory bugged me my whole life. After living a very ungodly lifestyle I was saved ( converted ) through full immersion baptism & the receiving of the Spirit with the biblical evidence of speaking in tongues ( an unknown language to me ) Not long after my conversion the nagging of Adam being first man creation began. I prayed. Told God I was willing to believe in faith but the nagging persisted. This was the one question I had from being a child to adult. I felt bad for doubting God. I prayed harder. The question literally burned in my brain so I said to God. I need an answer. The next church meeting I attended a person came up to me & introduced himself. 'Hi. My name is Richard. Did u know that Adam wasn't the first man God created?' He then explained the whole account of Genesis & creation. I was literally blown away. I had never read the actual bible description of Genesis. Only my child bible & what I was taught by religion at the time growing up. It is wonderful to be enlightened to bible truths. And yes also same belief with flood. As it was Adams generation God was dealing with not the generation before it makes perfect sense God flooded that part of the earth. There are scriptures in other parts of the bible that point to the whole earth but are in fact pointing only to the area populated by Adams/Noah generation at the time. What I find rather incredible is this is knowledge I learned in 1995. Seeing something like this posted in 2018 is refreshing but also confusing...

    • TheNewViewbyMario profile image

      TheNewViewbyMario 

      3 months ago

      Greetings to all,

      I've read most of your responces to this aricle, and notices that you may need a reconcilational way regarding Genesis 1 and Genesis 2.

      I during most my adult life have had the same conflict with the accounts in Genesis. Just like Jeremy I think there is somethings in G1 that simply didn't add up in harmony with G2.

      To make it short here my take on this matter hoping in God that it will be a blessing to all.

      You all have read G1; v1-31 and you have read G2; v1-8 ?

      Now I want you to notice in G2 where God makes man...(ADAM)G2 v7. Now right before that the scriptures state; G2 v5,

      No bush of the field was yet on the earth and no vegetation of the field had begun SPROUTING, because Jehovah God had not made it rain on the earth and there was NO MAN to cultivate the ground.

      Now I would like recommend that you all go back to G1 and find where you could harmonies G2 v5...

      Once you find that you will have found a new view on these old controversy.

      If you find it please get me know. And thanks.

    • profile image

      Rejoice 

      3 months ago

      Thanks for the insight my brother's and sisters in Christ. Bt Jeremy in my research I had the same findings and no I'm not some theology prof. bt a woman that loves God beyond all bt only the creation story but as for the regional flood , my Jesus once said " let a blind fool rejoice in his blindness", and seeing is not always believing cause my God always imphesizes on blind faith, yes play around and figure out what his word means bt be clueless at all times like a child. Everyone is right but thing is everyone shines their light in different angles while we all looking at the same doctrine and like man of the flash everything has to b a competition, imagine if everyone took everyone's view like I did and grew in Christ from it.and to all those that lost it after a while don't u know it's a sin to even feel anger. Love you all guys. God is love

    • profile image

      Paul 

      3 months ago

      If there lived people on earth before Adam and Eve were created, then why in Gen 3:20 is written: 'And Adam called his wife's name Eve; BECAUSE SHE WAS THE MOTHER OF ALL LIVING.'?

    • HeadlyvonNoggin profile imageAUTHOR

      Jeremy Christian 

      3 months ago from Texas

      Hi Cario,

      That is how I read it. This is one of the clues that indicates these are two separate events. Humans created male and female, then Adam and Eve.

    • profile image

      Cario 

      3 months ago

      Hey Jeremy

      I think you have not read and understood the Bible in the sequence that has been written.

      Gen 1:27 says He created humankind- he created male and female. Then cross reference to Gen 2: 18-23 where the specific mention of female is created out of one of the ribs of Adam. The rest is period!

    • profile image

      peter Thuo 

      3 months ago

      I'm not understand the first man in earth

    • ChesterMBANGCHIA profile image

      Chester Mbangchia 

      3 months ago from Cameroon

      Jumbled Insights

      The man with the ark

      Was stricken with lightening,

      Said 2Sam 6:1-7 & 1Chr 13:9-12.

      And predestination, it is said,

      The world was subjected to:

      Thus, the man Iscariot betrayed,

      Predestination was at play.

      And tens of thousands were smashed

      Down all for looking at the ark.

      What a piteous death for looking

      With eyes meant to see.

      And 1 Peter First 2:18 said thus:

      Slaves are good slaves,

      Who question not the master.

      And the Exiting Book 21:7-8 said thus:

      Father, when your daughter is sold,

      The buyer, dissatisfied with the product,

      Thus, can resell it.

      Oh! What a piety to she that had genitals cut,

      No entering into a holy ground.

      Said it not Deut 23:1?

      And did not the cannon say

      It had good news?

      Good news entails not falsity,

      Falsity entails not the truth

      Like “I am coming soon.”

      Chester MBANGCHIA

    • ChesterMBANGCHIA profile image

      Chester Mbangchia 

      3 months ago from Cameroon

      Hello Jeremy,

      I've read your post and the comments that have been coming in for over five years. I appreciate your stance and arguments to support your hypotheses. The thoughts therein corroborate with the ones I've had over the last few years. Last year, while I was contemplating on similar things to your post that were disturbing me, I wrote the what I'll post hereafter

    • HeadlyvonNoggin profile imageAUTHOR

      Jeremy Christian 

      3 months ago from Texas

      Hi Chester

    • ChesterMBANGCHIA profile image

      Chester Mbangchia 

      3 months ago from Cameroon

      Hello

    • profile image

      Omega 

      3 months ago

      Any way the work of God is not sometimes understood perfectly by human nature lets notice that.

    • HeadlyvonNoggin profile imageAUTHOR

      Jeremy Christian 

      3 months ago from Texas

      Rebeka,

      It's not the fruit itself that was the issue. It's that God commanded they don't eat it. When they ate it the effect it had was because they had acted contrary to God's will.

    • profile image

      Rebeka 

      3 months ago

      The forbidden fruit was a custard apple . The seeds apparently can kill you ,but the fruit is good for your health .

    • HeadlyvonNoggin profile imageAUTHOR

      Jeremy Christian 

      3 months ago from Texas

      Rhonda,

      Yes, what the bible says is true, but there's a difference between the actual text and the way that text is interpreted/translated. Human interpretation is the fallible element that is in question here. Not the text.

      For example ...

      Gen 1:26-27 - God spoke: “Let us make HUMAN BEINGS in our image, make them reflecting our nature So they can be responsible for the fish in the sea, the birds in the air, the cattle, And, yes, Earth itself, and every animal that moves on the face of Earth.” God created HUMAN BEINGS; he created them godlike, Reflecting God’s nature. He created them male and female. God blessed them: “Prosper! Reproduce! Fill Earth! Take charge! Be responsible for fish in the sea and birds in the air, for every living thing that moves on the face of Earth.”

    • profile image

      Rhonda 

      3 months ago

      Genesis chapter 1:26

      Then God said, let us make man in our image according to our likeness let them have domain in over the fish of the sea over the birds of the air and over the cattle over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth so God created man (not humans) in his own image in the image of God he created HIM male and female he created them then God blessed them and God said to them be fruitful and multiply fill the earth and subdue it have dominion over the fish of the sea over the birds of the air and over every living thing that moves on the earth.

      It does not say God created humans. What the Bible says is true it is not a theory as like science. Good luck with your theories .

    • HeadlyvonNoggin profile imageAUTHOR

      Jeremy Christian 

      4 months ago from Texas

      Hi Scorch,

      Yes, when land first formed it formed as one single "supercontinent" called Pangea, then broke apart and drifted into the form it is now. But this happened during "day 3" of creation, long before the biblical flood.

    • profile image

      Scorch 

      4 months ago

      Were not the continents attached at one point in earths history? They fit together like a puzzle. Could not this be the reason for a global flood? The word says Gen 8:2-3

      (2)  The fountains of the deep and the windows of the heavens were closed, the rain from the heavens was restrained,

      (3)  and the waters receded from the earth continually. At the end of 150 days the waters had abated,

      Could not God have caused the continental shift to occur opening the fountains of the deep covering the whole land as it was much closer together? This has been my understanding.

    • profile image

      anastasianastasi 

      4 months ago

      I really respect your outlook.

    • HeadlyvonNoggin profile imageAUTHOR

      Jeremy Christian 

      4 months ago from Texas

      Bottom line ....

      "Interpretation of biblical passages must be informed by the current state of demonstrable knowledge." - St. Augustine

    • profile image

      Gustas banderas bandelious. 

      4 months ago

      Thank you jeremy for the conversation.

      Though i don't agree with your views, i do respect everybody's right to believe or not believe as they choose.

      For me, i could never compromise whats written in the text, the biblical text that is, if i did, i would just discard all of it, but that don't mean not being able to read between the lines, or from being able to distinguish what parts of the sumerian accounts are true or false.

      If you feel the flood story is false, then that's just your opinion, others are just as convinced that a worldwide deluge did happen via other evidences, It's not for you to imply otherwise.

      For me, i know all the accounts mentioned in the bible happened for real, in fact, the bible is so accurate and reliable that you can use it as a map to discover places mentioned in it.

      David Rohl. Egyptologist ( a non believer ) went out to reset dates of biblical events that happened in the bible, while doing that, all the major events that happened recorded in the bible all fell into that time frame, including the Israelites being slaves in egypt, evidences for the plagues, especially mass burials of first borns which was out of custom of mummifications during that time period.

      If you want to reinterpret all the evidence discovered supporting the biblical accounts, names, places, peoples, events that happened, then that's your choice. But I'm convinced the bible is the most reliable book in history, and the only book in history that's truly recorded past world events with honesty.

      I will mention one particular example, the "Taylor Prism" acquired in 1830 by Robert Taylor. It mentions sennacherib's 185,000 army surround Judah ready to overthrow it the following morning. King sennacherib wasn't able to record on the prism that he did conquer Judah like he recorded other nations he conquered, but ( 2 kings 19:35 ) tells why, an angel of God was sent to destroy his army by night. When sennacherib woke up he saw dead bodies everywhere.

      2 versions of one account, but the bible filled in the missing details sennacherib omitted.

      If God was able to deliver Judah from the hands of Assyria in that way, i don't think a worldwide deluge would be out the question either.

      As i said, thanks for the conversation, won't be commenting any further now.

      Peace.

    • profile image

      Gustas banderas bandelious. 

      4 months ago

      Disbelief in how the text is interpreted is disbelief in the text itself if you have to reinterpret it.

      Belief and faith have everything to do with it.

      Peace.

    • profile image

      Gustas banderas bandelious. 

      4 months ago

      There's no point even mentioning discoveries if Its going to be dismissed as evidence, by belittling the intelligence of the sumerians.

      The sumerians were just as capable of recording an event that took place as we are today. In fact, the sumerians were just like us in every way, same brain capacity, but without modern technology. They recorded the actual flood itself, but included myths and exagerations, things even people in todays world do.

      Even a small child can report or make a "statement" about an event that happened, plus you cannot compare a worldwide deluge to local floods, and how solid silts would have deposited.

      Them are just preconceptions of how we think things should have happened ( "not" solid evidence )

      As i said, even geologist have different views and opinions.

    • profile image

      Gustas banderas bandelious. 

      4 months ago

      The physical evidence you talk about, is also open to interpretation.

      Even geologist have different views and opinions of how certain things came about. You also have open minded geologist "with beliefs" who could show evidence to the contrary.

      Regarding the Nephilim. That's not a contradiction, they just reported what they thought they seen, the people in the land "were" large people.

      Also anyone who understands the history of the land of the canaanites, and what they used to do to people, including children ( via discoveries ) you may wonder why God allowed things to go on for so long in the first place.

    • HeadlyvonNoggin profile imageAUTHOR

      Jeremy Christian 

      4 months ago from Texas

      Gustas,

      This has nothing to do with belief or faith. There's physical evidence that shows this interpretation of the flood is false. Hard physical evidence.

      This isn't disbelief of the text. It's disbelief in how that text has been interpreted.

    • profile image

      Gustas banderas bandelious. 

      4 months ago

      Jeremy.

      Just for now, i would like to say, if we approach this subject with disbelief, we will notice "apparent" contradictions.

      But when you approach it based on faith, the answers come up at a later date. ( Good answers as well ) is that coincidence ? Or Self-deception ?

      With Personal experiences you know the difference. That's "faith and trust"

      Will reply to the last comment as well.

    • profile image

      Gustas banderas bandelious. 

      4 months ago

      Jeremy.

      Noticed some contradictions in your last comments. ( Will explain )

      Also the "understanding" of the word "Nephilim" ( Numbers 13 ) is misread.

    • HeadlyvonNoggin profile imageAUTHOR

      Jeremy Christian 

      4 months ago from Texas

      The Sumerians had the same limitations in both language and ability to report on the entirety of the Earth.

      It simply isn't logical to think the people of this age could report a flood as being global. They'd have no way of knowing.

      And the evidence clearly shows no global flood. If there had been a time when the entire planet was covered in water then there'd be a solid silt deposit found in every archaeological dig that could be used as a marker. There isn't.

      Not to mention the contradictions a global flood would cause in the text. Like in Numbers 13 where it says the spies of Israel saw descendants of the Nephilim. If the flood were global then there'd be no survivors outside of those on the ark.

    • HeadlyvonNoggin profile imageAUTHOR

      Jeremy Christian 

      4 months ago from Texas

      Because Genesis starts with God creating all the world. So when one reads the flood they think He's destroying "all" He created.

      I get it. It just doesn't make logical sense considering all the details.

    • profile image

      Gustas banderas bandelious. 

      4 months ago

      If they share the same history, then a worlwide deluge actually did happen, because the sumerians recorded that on a discovery found over a centuary ago, at the site of ancient Nippur.

    • HeadlyvonNoggin profile imageAUTHOR

      Jeremy Christian 

      4 months ago from Texas

      "But then, you will just say the authors of the bible borrowed stories from the sumerians. "Cannot Win""

      No, not borrowed. The Sumerians lived in the same valley as where the biblical flood happened. These stories aren't borrowed. They share the same history. So they tell many similar stories.

    • HeadlyvonNoggin profile imageAUTHOR

      Jeremy Christian 

      4 months ago from Texas

      Gustas,

      "but there's discoveries made which makes reference to that flood, some of them discoveris actually ( PREDATE ) the earliest O/T writings, and make reference to that flood."

      How do we know these other references are speaking of the same flood and not just A flood? Any place inhabited by humans will most likely have a water source and at least semi-regular rain. Floods are very common throughout human history as they go hand in hand with the types of environments humans tend to live in.

    • HeadlyvonNoggin profile imageAUTHOR

      Jeremy Christian 

      4 months ago from Texas

      Gustas,

      "they wouldn't have had any reason to report on the entirety of the planet, not sure the relevance to that ?"

      It's from the biblical description that the concept of a global flood comes from. This is relevant because that can't be what the authors were saying.

      The marine fossil evidence in the mountains is because that land used to be on the sea floor before plate tectonics caused collisions between continental land masses causes land between to buckle up into mountain ranges.

      Land and mountain ranges formed long before the flood.

    • profile image

      Gustas banderas bandelious. 

      4 months ago

      About having "evidence in the soil consistent across the globe" ?

      I actually think we do have that evidence. Marine fossils for example have been discovered in there thousands on top of mountains.

      It was argued at one time, the reason for that is because of mountains rising out of the sea, but if that's the case, that could also support waters receding after the flood, as mentioned in genesis. If these marine fossils exist the world over, including mountains, the soil would be the same as well.

      Plus in Australia you have acres of land with fossilised tree stumps, all snapped at the roots, that also seems consistent with a biblical flood.

      Regarding the authors of that biblical depiction, they wouldn't have had any reason to report on the entirety of the planet, not sure the relevance to that ?

    • HeadlyvonNoggin profile imageAUTHOR

      Jeremy Christian 

      4 months ago from Texas

      If there had actually been a world wide flood at one point in history then we would evidence in the soil consistent across the globe. We don't. It would be very obvious if that were the case.

      The most compelling argument, I think, is the fact that the authors of the biblical depiction had no way of reporting on the entirety of the planet. Hebrew in that age didn't even have words to describe a flood in that way.

      You have to separate the two; there's the text themselves, then there's the human interpretation of those texts. These are two different things.

      When you and I read the text we read it in the way we've learned it. It's sometimes difficult to see anything other than what we think we already know.

      The people who formed those interpretations that are traditionally taught didn't have the level of knowledge we do now. So it's inevitable that they would have gotten some things wrong.

      That's why reinterpretation is needed. We now know the history of the region these stories are based in. We now know more about the cultures that are mentioned. We can now, for the first time in history, place these stories in the correct historical context.

    • profile image

      Gustas banderas bandelious. 

      4 months ago

      OK Jeremy.

      Not sure what scientifically gathered information could disprove a Global flood ?

      For that reason, i can't see any reason for reinterpreting the text either, since as you say, the text themselves aren't in question.

      Whatever information is discovered in those regions, or time frame, all came after the flood ( you cannot go before that )

      A number of "flood tablets" discovered, all make reference to a Global flood, and of a world before that flood. Basically, Sumeria is the begining of mankind again "but after the flood" ( Discoveries support that )

    • HeadlyvonNoggin profile imageAUTHOR

      Jeremy Christian 

      4 months ago from Texas

      Gustas,

      The texts themselves aren't in question. They definitely speak of a flood and of Babel and Noah and Abraham. They definitely speak of a specific region and a specific time.

      It's how those words are interpreted that is in question. We now know much more about the history of that region of the world. We now know much more about the Sumerians and the Hittites and others that are spoken of that we knew nothing about back when the traditional interpretations were originally formed.

      Modern scientifically gathered information disproves a global flood. Now that we know that we can re-evaluate the text and figure out what's true and what's misinterpreted. Or, like I've done here, I've found the specific timeframe in which the stories described happened. Then, when you have the correct historical context of the stories, you can better understand what's being described.

    • profile image

      Gustas banderas bandelious. 

      4 months ago

      Jeremy.

      I don't understand how the biblical perspective is open to reinterpretation while accepting that there was at least some kind of flood which is in agreement with the Genesis account, and by making references to Noah, Babel, Abraham which all comes from the bible and bible writers.

      What exactly is being reinterpreted if people of the past never had as much information as we do now ? And what information do we have now that disproves the biblical account ?

      All we're doing Jeremy is reasoning, that's before any discoveries are mentioned.

    • HeadlyvonNoggin profile imageAUTHOR

      Jeremy Christian 

      4 months ago from Texas

      Gustas,

      The multiple legends, I believe, come from the fact that the sons of Noah when they were dispersed at Babel, each arrived at their destinations carrying with them tales of a flood. One local flood spoken about in multiple cultures.

      It has nothing to do with what I want to believe.

      The biblical perspective is open to reinterpretation because the interpretations that most of us were taught were formed centuries ago by people who didn't have as much information as we do now.

    • profile image

      Gustas banderas bandelious. 

      4 months ago

      Jeremy.

      How do you explain all the flood legends around the globe ? Isn't that a description of a worlwide flood ?

      Then you have the biblical authors, that's why i mentioned "Psalms" for example, to show that the authors were capable of describing a worldwide flood.

      Just because something don't make sence, or why a God would do that doesn't mean it never happened.

      If it was something you wanted to believe in, you would see all the evidence, but instead, we keep dismissing the evidence. That's why it's a heart issue, but even then, i still respect everybody's views, though i may not agree.

      I also believe the truth about our past, from a biblical perspective is not open to re-interpretation. Though people will reinterpret it.

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